Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: raselsob@yahoo.com on September 17, 2023, 12:25:41 am
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Ok Incandescent maybe draft something for the OP and let's see if between us we can come up with something arguable.
Sorry, I've only just picked this up, and wonder to myself how I could have missed it. Even if these were "No Entry" signs that suddenly switch on, the argument is the same. A motorist can come that way many times in the non-restricted hours and only see a 40 mph sign. Then suddenly, he comes along at night or whenever the sign changes from a 40 mph to a Flying Motorbike sign, and is confronted with the sign barring his entry. What I'm saying is based on OP photographs because latest GSV is June 2021. Apparently the main signs on the roundabout show nothing. The council clearly realise they have done a boo-boo, because they have put up small yellow background non-traffic signs to give some sort of warning, but these are wholly unsatisfactory being difficult to read from a moving car, and also unilluminated. Yes a motorist must always react to signs, but this is is just grotesque in my opinion. What happens if the sign happens to switch just as you start to enter the road ? I'll bet they issue a PCN just the same. If the main roundabout signs have the restriction on them, I'd be a lot happier but unfortunately we can only see the 2021 signs on GSV.
I see the traffic order is to stop boy-racing along what must be the only straight stretch of road in this part of London ! Further down, the Docklands Light Railway goes down the centre reservation.
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The Newham (Prescribed Routes) (No. 3) Order 2012 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1mZ_jCGmZ9yBTh-t1Gy8ZQB832igZrols).
Can't see any issues with the traffic order. Have you made a representation?
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Ok Incandescent maybe draft something for the OP and let's see if between us we can come up with something arguable.
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If those were no entry signs, would they also be inadequate? Somehow I have my doubts.
I think your best bet might be to make a plea for discretion while we wait for the traffic order to come back.
But surely any traffic roundabout sign giving the direction information would have something to indicate an access ban at certain times. Here there is nothing as far as I can see aport from the small yellow signs. Sorry, but I still think this is very badly signed. OK for those who pass here every day maybe.
Of course, I'm not an adjudicator wanting an easy day at work !
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If those were no entry signs, would they also be inadequate? Somehow I have my doubts.
I think your best bet might be to make a plea for discretion while we wait for the traffic order to come back.
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Frankly, the way this restriction has been introduced beggars belief. Small yellow, non-traffic signs very hard to read give warning of a restriction on a named road. Coming along when the restriction is not in place would lead the motorist, if coming that way again that the road was unrestricted, so could quite easily take that exit and get a PCN. The signage is grossly inadequate. You need to get your case in front of an adjudicator at London Tribunals, but you'd have to risk the full PCN amount. I would say the odds in your favour are good, but see what the others say.
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https://youtube.com/shorts/bi0OWT7Ek78?si=6vAShf5K0WJLgZKG
Please help .
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https://youtube.com/shorts/zeBauTCI0S4?si=yUR4N3KbpZ-lQXUl
Sorry for being not able to record full video , it’s a big 5 exit roundabout, they have put 40 speed limit on the roundabout and yellow warning sign said when sign is on royal Albert will be close but in day time though sign is on but road still open & only weekend even though sign said road close they use a digital auto changeable signboard and change 40 to a camera and no motor vehicle & they totally confuse local residents and even anyone come from far as it’s 40 road and 5 exit roundabout you can easily make a mistake on wrong exit and end you have to pay PCN , as you will be at 40 you will easily miss this small no vehicle sign as you are driving at 40
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https://youtube.com/shorts/o8ofN34mS8I?si=f5sksw4kvWEFi1fX
You say "as you turn into this road", but at the start of the video, you have already turned. Best try again !
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https://youtube.com/shorts/o8ofN34mS8I?si=f5sksw4kvWEFi1fX
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Thanks I will take some more photo and update here
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I did ask you to read this properly https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/ (because most people won't bother to start downloading and opening PDFs you've attached) but never mind, I'll do it for you:
PCNs:
(https://i.imgur.com/odSgVBv.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/tbnbuz9.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/TZP23HZ.png)
Video for PN73950009:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hce3EAwwfc0
Video for PN73976931:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEMARfcsBtQ
Video for PN73974335:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7QHgv0RTI4
So the location is here https://maps.app.goo.gl/JVHdYqWowcQnn2RS9 but google street view is not up to date, are you able to go back and get us some updated photos of the signage?
One immediate issue is that the road looks like a 30 mph and the signs are legally required to be illuminated, but I can't see any evidence of illumination in the videos, this is one of the things you want to check (and get photos to prove one way or the other).
I'll also get hold of the traffic order.
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Their only evidence of the alleged contravention is a video taken from a CCTV camera. You need to obtain this and post it here. If you don't feel confident enough, then post your car reg number and PCN number and somebody here will obtain it. Something seems quite odd here. A PCN for the ULEZ I could understand as the signs are clear, but not a restriction on motor vehicles as there are no signs.
If you're running out of time, submit representations stating that at the location concerned there are no signs that bar motorvehicles, so you cannot understand how the PCN has been issued to you.
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I have few more photo , those are live recent photo , there wasn’t sign motorbike & car can’t go , it’s a main road connect london city airport and a13 , how could they can put a restriction on this main road , this car is fully electric and had PCO sticker as well , thanks please help , this photo I have taken , also I got a video , there isn’t any sign said no vehicle . The CCTV they provide not clear and I don’t how did they got that no vehicle sign .
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From your narrative, it is very likely that the PCNs are for passing a sign forbidding motorvehicles, and nothing whatever to do with the ULEZ. The signs are commonly called "the flying motorbike" sign" with a motorbike symbol above a car symbol. If you passed a sign like this you'll get PCNs every time you pass one.
GSV is not sufficiently up-to-date, so we'd need more photos from you, I'm afraid. The photo of the 40 speed limit sign seems to be a variable display sign, so we need to see what else it displays.
Sorry for lack of advice, but we need to see what is there now at the location on the PCN.
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Hi got 3 PCN from newham at royal Albert way e16 - Gallion reach roundabout. No clear sign or it’s a main road , I am a resident on e16 for last 7 years , only sign I can see , Royal Albert way will be close if yellow display is on and another place says now enforcement camera operate in Royal Albert way and under That sign says Ulez . https://maps.app.goo.gl/jEW5FAMFpCAwTvZV9
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