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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: mairajbhaii on March 09, 2025, 12:32:10 am

Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: Incandescent on September 09, 2025, 01:04:27 am
And don't forget that the "Applicant", (see top right of form), is the council, not you. You are the "Respondent".
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on September 08, 2025, 10:41:05 pm
got the form, filled as per guide, but for issue of witness, oath court officer, is an issue, people saying to get it done by any nearby solicitor with some fees, will this work or not?
As I've tried to explain in the guide, you can either do this at a local court free of charge, or for around £10 / £15 most high street solicitors will do it for you. It will work, it doesn't matter if it's a solicitor or a court officer, either is fine.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on September 08, 2025, 10:39:43 pm
Please look at the guide here: https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-l-1805/

Start reading from the paragraph that says "As soon as the debt has been registered, use form PE3..." and follow the instructions from there.
got the form, filled as per guide, but for issue of witness, oath court officer, is an issue, people saying to get it done by any nearby solicitor with some fees, will this work or not?
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on September 08, 2025, 03:48:14 pm
Please look at the guide here: https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-l-1805/

Start reading from the paragraph that says "As soon as the debt has been registered, use form PE3..." and follow the instructions from there.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on September 08, 2025, 02:48:07 pm
Unfortunately for now you'll just have to keep calling TEC once every couple of weeks.

Good news the tec says its now registered with them on 29th August and i Have 36 days to appeal or go forward. Have to file a PE3 form for appeal and send to them.

So now whats my option here
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on June 25, 2025, 01:19:59 am
I don't think anyone working for the council has the faintest idea either, all you can do is keep checking with TEC.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on June 24, 2025, 09:49:50 pm
Unfortunately for now you'll just have to keep calling TEC once every couple of weeks.

Hi find attached reply received for SAR from council and the attachment document from them, which is not understandable by myself.

Further, I have been calling about alternate days and keepin tabs on TEC about debt registry, but so far no update.

Regards

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on June 18, 2025, 03:49:29 pm
Personal comments should be left for PMs or preferably not at all.
Your post appears to be in breach of House Rule 3 (https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/house-rules/), and advice given that if made by a lawyer would be negligent amounts to a prima-facie breach of house rule 3 and these will be called out. Further comments on this point will be removed as this aspect of the discussion is closed.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: H C Andersen on June 18, 2025, 09:18:11 am
Personal comments should be left for PMs or preferably not at all.

The OP is not and never would be the liable party: 'Its not any lease its just a mutual family consent from both sides', so their actions bear consequences only for the registered keeper as regards enforcement.

My post tried to bring all relevant facts together.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on June 18, 2025, 01:07:22 am
The letter of 31 March plainly invited a letter of authority to be supplied but it provided no timeframe for doing so, the Appellant responded within 8 working days. Personally I would have no hesitation in making a statutory declaration in this case, because the representations were made within the 28 day period and mairajbhaii had actual authority from the registered keeper. The fact that proof of authority was only supplied later on arguably does not alter the fact that he had actual authority.

@H C Andersen sometimes I feel you make things harder just for the sake of it. There are only two options here, submit a statutory declaration that arguably is properly made, and the worst-case outcome is a direction to pay £130 (best case scenario is an appeal allowed outcome), the alternative is to not submit an SD and just pay £195 now. If you were acting as mairajbhaii's legal advisor you could be guilty of professional negligence for effectively just telling him to go and pay £195.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: H C Andersen on June 17, 2025, 10:22:14 am
Post #1, 29 March:
Hi I received this PCN, HN71513688, kindly help what can be done, I have appealed to make some time as the traffic was moving slow and the cars in front stalled although signal was green, morning rush hour, also I had my 7 month old daughter crying at back child seat who's seat strap I was adjusting while the traffic was moving very slow. Video is not viewing properly.

The PCN dated 21 Feb. was issued to the registered keeper, not the OP, and the 28-day period expired on 24 March.

The OP made representations on or around 9 March and then received an auto response to these 'representations' which they posted on 10 March, #2.

These 'representations' have been overlooked in subsequent posts which have concentrated on formulating representations. Indeed, the OP sent further 'representations' but without authority on or about 18 March.

The letter of authority(which we haven't seen) was sent on 9 April along with even more 'representations':


I have appealed this trhu online pcn challenge and attached the authority letter as well.

OP, IMO the registered keeper has no grounds to submit a Statutory Declaration.

2 sets of reps were made by you without authority and disregarded for being defective i.e. not by or on lawful behalf of the registered keeper.

What was sent on 9 April is beyond the 28-day period and may be disregarded, and probably has been.

Wait for others, but IMO this is a mess.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on June 17, 2025, 12:04:52 am
Unfortunately for now you'll just have to keep calling TEC once every couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on June 16, 2025, 08:12:32 pm
i have received this response for SAR request of notice of rejection, extended timeline

attached

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on June 12, 2025, 11:30:26 pm
I called TEC they say they have no record of register with them, they say to wait for a few days and keep calling them to check in when it's registered with them, then look for some 3rd letter for recovery etc. then I can appeal to them on that instance.

So what do now ?

You need to call TEC once every two weeks until they tell you the PCN is registered with them. Once that happens just come back here and we'll tell you what to do next.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on June 12, 2025, 11:39:35 am
No havent received any charge certificate
Yes you have, you put it in post 34 above.

TEC won't know anything about the charge certificate, you just need to ask them if the PCN has been registered with them.

I called TEC they say they have no record of register with them, they say to wait for a few days and keep calling them to check in when it's registered with them, then look for some 3rd letter for recovery etc. then I can appeal to them on that instance.

So what do now ?
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on June 11, 2025, 09:56:24 am
No havent received any charge certificate
Yes you have, you put it in post 34 above.

TEC won't know anything about the charge certificate, you just need to ask them if the PCN has been registered with them.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on June 10, 2025, 09:20:35 pm
No havent received any charge certificate or SAR of notice rejection, only this reply was received,

i wil call them see what they have got ...

So i need to look for charge certificate for now ??

Or ask them for debt registered or not??
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on June 10, 2025, 12:26:45 am
Have you received anything after the Charge Certificate? The SAR reply is rather odd because it doesn't include the Charge Certificate, so we don't really know what happened after they received the letter of authority.

I'd suggest you call TEC on 0300 123 1059 and check if the debt has been registered.

Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on June 10, 2025, 12:14:45 am
OK let us know when they reply.

I have attached the ICO response for SAR of first request and the case report, now I am waiting for their response for Notice rejection, possibly they will reply to that, as I told them to keep both request separate.

Kindly review and guide what's the best course of action now.

Regards

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on May 21, 2025, 11:36:33 pm
OK let us know when they reply.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on May 21, 2025, 10:16:03 pm
@cp8759

Received these replies from council about SAR.

For response about separate request, i replied to them, treat this separate request, although the previous SAR request was for VDO evidence which was later available online, but SAR still pending and was extended for another 2 months.

Regards


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on May 07, 2025, 09:45:31 am
The NOR won't be held by a third party, so you shouldn't have this problem.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on May 07, 2025, 02:40:26 am
@mairajbhaii just force their hand by submitting a subject access request: https://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/2479/Subject-access-request-form

All you need to do is submit a SAR asking for the notice of rejection for this PCN, you don't need to provide any reasons for why you want it.

There's no point in going there in person, the people who deal with PCNs are probably in some back office miles away from the main council offices. Even if you find the right office, I don't think there's any chance they'll come and speak to you face to face.

Although i have now requested for SAR of Notice of rejection, but attached you will see the way they replied to me first time when i asked for video evidence and later again they extended the date due to some technical issue with 3rd party.

Expecting they will repeat this again this time as well.

Fingers crossed

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on May 06, 2025, 05:27:41 pm
@mairajbhaii just force their hand by submitting a subject access request: https://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/2479/Subject-access-request-form

All you need to do is submit a SAR asking for the notice of rejection for this PCN, you don't need to provide any reasons for why you want it.

There's no point in going there in person, the people who deal with PCNs are probably in some back office miles away from the main council offices. Even if you find the right office, I don't think there's any chance they'll come and speak to you face to face.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on May 06, 2025, 02:33:27 pm
@mairajbhaii while the advice from John and Incandescent is not wrong, you don't want to bother with the TEC process if you can possibly avoid it, that should really only be used as a last resort.

In the first instance please contact the council as a matter of urgency and try and get the following information about of them, in order of priority:

1) Has a notice of rejection been issued?
2) If yes, what is the verification code on the notice of rejection?
3) Can they email you a copy of the notice of rejection?

As long as you get a positive answer to at least one of these, you can appeal directly to the tribunal without having to faff about with getting a statutory declaration sworn. If they refuse to answer you might need to force their hand by making a formal subject access request, but in the first instance I would call up and ask as most councils will provide these answer over the phone.

I have had been trying to contact phone council but seems humanly impossible to get thru, it leads you with yes or no recorded options but no real person attends the call in any options

Possibly will have to try visit them about this issue to inquire about notice of rejection or even acknowledging the responses submitted online.

Regards

Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: Hippocrates on May 06, 2025, 11:14:14 am
I was informed by one other Musketeer of a new Practice Direction nowadays which bypasses the need for a council to refer the matter to the Tribunal.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: Incandescent on May 05, 2025, 11:55:16 pm
I did say the OP could contact the council. However, I shall emphasise this more in future posts. As said, going through the Statutory Declaration process is the last resort, literally,  and is a bit of a PITA !

We do seem to see a lot of threads where the OP submits reps then the first thing they get back is a Charge Certificate. I do wonder if councils are so perfect in their admin as to never miss sending out a letter of rejection.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on May 05, 2025, 10:55:44 pm
@mairajbhaii while the advice from John and Incandescent is not wrong, you don't want to bother with the TEC process if you can possibly avoid it, that should really only be used as a last resort.

In the first instance please contact the council as a matter of urgency and try and get the following information about of them, in order of priority:

1) Has a notice of rejection been issued?
2) If yes, what is the verification code on the notice of rejection?
3) Can they email you a copy of the notice of rejection?

As long as you get a positive answer to at least one of these, you can appeal directly to the tribunal without having to faff about with getting a statutory declaration sworn. If they refuse to answer you might need to force their hand by making a formal subject access request, but in the first instance I would call up and ask as most councils will provide these answer over the phone.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: John U.K. on May 05, 2025, 09:51:21 pm
+1
For process also see

https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-l-1805/
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: Incandescent on May 05, 2025, 09:37:54 pm
There is a simple process to revert the matter to the stage where you submitted representations.

While they try to intimidate you by saying they can register the debt at "the county court" and instruct bailiffs, the plain fact is that the "county court" is the Traffic Enforcement Centre, a special civil court with no court rooms and no judges. There is no possibility whatever of a CCJ, because the legal process was written to make sure these can never be issued.

Once the PCN debt is registered, they MUST send you an Order for Recovery. This adds £10 onto the Charge Certificate amount, being the TEC registration fee. They will include the form for submitting a Statutory Declaration that you submitted reps but received no letter of rejection.

Of course, you can phone the authority to tell them you have their acceptance response to your representations, and h have received no response. It's possible they may tell you they have responded, and give you the date of it. If so, this means, if they won't cancel the CC, that you must wait for the Order for Recovery as above. This could be weeks away. So once the period to pay the CC expires, check with TEC about every 10-14 days to see if the debt is registered. You may also be able to find out from the council website, as once they register the debt, the amount shown increases by £10. You don't have to wait for the paper OfR to turn up, you can download the SD form from the TEC website. You need a PE3
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pe3-challenge-an-unpaid-penalty-charge-notice
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on May 05, 2025, 08:18:43 pm
@cp8759

Find attached the response from council.

Now what do I do to this .....????

How can they deny eveyrthing all reponses so far.


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on April 09, 2025, 03:01:00 am
Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKJUgqD-FFA

The contravention is made out, here's a draft that's much more to the point:

Dear London Borough of Hillingdon,

I challenge liability on the ground that the penalty fails to unambiguously state the matters that must be stated on the notice, specifically the notice fails to convey the effect of paragraph 5 of Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 as it provides at best information that is ambiguous. This is because there is no unequivocal indication of whether the penalty may increase to £195 after 28 days from the date of the notice, or 28 days from the date of service of the notice.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online rather than by post, just make sure to upload the letter of authority when you are asked if you have any documents to upload.

Make sure to take a timed / dated screenshot of the confirmation page.

Hi,

I have appealed this trhu online pcn challenge and attached the authority letter as well.

find attached the screenshot of confirmation page.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on April 08, 2025, 06:59:33 pm
Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKJUgqD-FFA

The contravention is made out, here's a draft that's much more to the point:

Dear London Borough of Hillingdon,

I challenge liability on the ground that the penalty fails to unambiguously state the matters that must be stated on the notice, specifically the notice fails to convey the effect of paragraph 5 of Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 as it provides at best information that is ambiguous. This is because there is no unequivocal indication of whether the penalty may increase to £195 after 28 days from the date of the notice, or 28 days from the date of service of the notice.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online rather than by post, just make sure to upload the letter of authority when you are asked if you have any documents to upload.

Make sure to take a timed / dated screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on April 07, 2025, 12:07:25 am
@cp8759

Im sending this alongwith authority letter to the return address, please see if this serves the purpose.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on April 02, 2025, 12:14:27 am
Did you send the letter of authority from the Director of the company together with the representation?

No, not with representation earlier, i got the letter later on from the director
So reply by sending them the letter.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on April 02, 2025, 12:11:29 am
Did you send the letter of authority from the Director of the company together with the representation?

No, not with representation earlier, i got the letter later on from the director
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on April 01, 2025, 11:40:51 pm
Did you send the letter of authority from the Director of the company together with the representation?
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on April 01, 2025, 11:35:29 pm
@cp8759

I have just received letter from council citing issue of representation only be made by registered keeper unless I have the signed letter-head from keeper for all liable. plz see attached. what should be the course of action now??

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: H C Andersen on March 19, 2025, 10:16:40 am
OP, as I understand it:

You are not the registered keeper.

You have 'an authority letter from the Director of the company[to which the PCN was addressed], as assigned driver for use of car for social and domestic use.'

So, can we get back to procedure pl to prevent this from potentially unraveling.

You cannot submit a SAR in your name because you are a stranger in these matters and therefore not the 'subject'.

You could not submit reps in your name because the PCN is not addressed to you.

So, may we see the letter from the Director pl.

Was this enclosed with the SAR and PCN?

If not, to whom and when was it sent.

Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on March 18, 2025, 10:47:31 pm
To set your expectations, the council will almost certainly refuse and you will then need to appeal to London Tribunals, it's only at the tribunal that you get a fair hearing.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on March 18, 2025, 10:35:28 pm
In the circumstances all you can really do is submit a representation stating that the alleged contravention did not occur. Send it online and take a times / dated screenshot of the confirmation page.

@cp8759

Submitting this as below:

The PCN served does not show video evidence on the council's website, and the alleged contravention did not occur.

Also the PCN wrongly states which action triggers the period in which the council
may serve a charge certificate: “If the Penalty Charge is not paid before the end
of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an
increased charge of £195.00 maybe payable. We may then send you a Charge
Certificate.” The law states at Schedule 1 5:

1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the penalty charge
to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the
enforcing authority may serve on that person a statement (in this paragraph
referred to as a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in
question is increased by 50 per cent.

(2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 28
days beginning—

(a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date
on which the penalty charge notice is served;


FYI - fingers crossed  :'(

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: Hippocrates on March 18, 2025, 10:11:26 am
In the circumstances all you can really do is submit a representation stating that the alleged contravention did not occur. Send it online and take a times / dated screenshot of the confirmation page.

@cp8759

Submitting this as below:

The PCN served does not show video evidence on the council's website, and the alleged contravention did not occur.

Also the PCN wrongly states which action triggers the period in which the council
may serve a charge certificate: “If the Penalty Charge is not paid before the end
of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an
increased charge of £195.00 maybe payable. We may then send you a Charge
Certificate.” The law states at Schedule 1 5:

1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the penalty charge
to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the
enforcing authority may serve on that person a statement (in this paragraph
referred to as a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in
question is increased by 50 per cent.

(2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 28
days beginning—

(a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date
on which the penalty charge notice is served;
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on March 18, 2025, 04:18:06 am
In the circumstances all you can really do is submit a representation stating that the alleged contravention did not occur. Send it online and take a times / dated screenshot of the confirmation page.

@cp8759

Submitting this as below:

The PCN served does not show video evidence on the council's website, and the alleged contravention did not occur.

Also the PCN wrongly states which action triggers the period in which the council
may serve a charge certificate: “If the Penalty Charge is not paid before the end
of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an
increased charge of £195.00 maybe payable. We may then send you a Charge
Certificate.” The law states at Schedule 1 5:

1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the penalty charge
to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the
enforcing authority may serve on that person a statement (in this paragraph
referred to as a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in
question is increased by 50 per cent.

(2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 28
days beginning—
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on March 17, 2025, 10:06:06 pm
In the circumstances all you can really do is submit a representation stating that the alleged contravention did not occur. Send it online and take a times / dated screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on March 17, 2025, 08:47:08 pm
@cp8759, what do i do next, as stil waiting for the vidoe but no response so far.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on March 16, 2025, 10:46:16 pm
Its only this 1 page
Are you saying the back of that is blank?
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on March 16, 2025, 10:19:49 pm
Please post up the remaining pages of the PCN.

@cp8759, find attached all pages

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on March 13, 2025, 10:54:46 am
Please post up the remaining pages of the PCN.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on March 13, 2025, 02:19:17 am
Hi,

So i have an authority letter from the Director of the company, as assigned driver for use of car for social and domestic use.

Its not any lease its just a mutual family consent from both sides.

Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: cp8759 on March 13, 2025, 01:32:25 am
@mairajbhaii let's start with something really basic, what is your connection to Innovation Edge Consultancy?

In any event I strongly recommend you don't send any representation to the council before putting a draft on here.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on March 13, 2025, 01:15:40 am
On the contravention there's nothing we can do til we see the video so focus on getting it.

There may be issues with Hillingdon's process and another member may know more.



First. the PCN is invalid re the increase. Not before the end of 28 days of the PCN date. They can only serve a C.C. after 28 days from the date of service. This is yet another council with the wrong date, Haringey and Hounslow being the others.  Must be an alphabetical problem.

Second, back later with a draft.. @Hippocrates

@cp8759 re the PCN.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on March 13, 2025, 01:15:01 am
@cp8759
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on March 13, 2025, 01:13:48 am
@Hippocrates, many thanks

can you send a draft of that PCN flaw, I will add it to the letter I will sendover to council.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: Hippocrates on March 12, 2025, 10:30:01 am
Please amend your reps. by adding the point about the PCN.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on March 11, 2025, 09:52:39 pm
No, I have only said this same details but have not argued for video not loading, I forgot this to mention in first when challenge appeal online. i thought of unavailable video being some issue with network. but later found this video link not working from anywhere.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: MrChips on March 11, 2025, 08:51:47 am
Is that draft intended to be a second challenge?  What did you write in the first one?

Either way, I don't suggest you send that.  Hippocrates has highlighted a flaw in the wording of your PCN which would likely render it invalid (there is certain mandatory information it is obliged to include and so if that wording isn't there, or doesn't accurately convey the required information, then you can argue the PCN is unenforceable).  He even provided a link to another similar case to show you how this argument has succeeded in the recent past.

So, if you are going to send a second challenge, I strongly suggest it includes his argument (plus a request for the video footage).  But first tell us what was in your original challenge, and let him guide you as to a suitable form of words to argue against the PCN wording.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on March 11, 2025, 02:20:35 am
SUBJECT: Appeal for alleged 31J – PCN HN71513688 (Vehicle FORD FOCUS Blue 2007) – plate no. BK07OGL

Dear Sir,
I have already sent a response to the subject matter, and now again would like to make notice that the subject matter evidence of VIDEO IS NOT ACCESSIBLE, and only some photos can be viewed online.
I have also requested for SAR as well incase if I do not get response within time of notice period.
Kindly see to this request and allow me to appeal against this alleged contravention, which may have occurred only for some seconds while I was moving forward and front vehicle could not have moved forward due to sudden stalling of vehicles in front, I was travelling to drop-off at my in-laws, my 7-month daughter and she was crying behind driver’s seat in her child seat, claim already lodged with child seat company due to duaghter’s unease and uncomfortable posture making difficult her to breathe and chin-up, so I had to calm her down as well during this slow moving rush hour traffic in the morning. This sudden abrupt stalling of lsow moving vehicles has not made any blockade to any incoming traffic as you can see from the photos the police vehicle beside my car has also moved ahead in same manner, however I had to stop for some seconds to clear way front vehicle which stopped abruptly leaving me no choice but to wait for a while.


Is this reply/letter okay for council, maybe they will listen to such cry  :'(
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: Hippocrates on March 10, 2025, 11:01:53 pm
Do you get my drift?????????????????

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/haringey-52(m)-pcn-nor-help-(downhills-park-rd-n17)/msg54651/#msg54651

Don't even consider paying it and forget phone calls.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on March 10, 2025, 10:54:38 pm
I have tried calling them on Hillingdon Council's parking enforcement hotline at 01895 271 418, but recording says to follow online website for any pcn appeals or pay, and nothing else.

So i have requested for SAR, if this helps, but no other way i can find to approach them.

Have reviewed some cases where it says theres appeal allowed where de minimis 4 or 6 seconds wait is evident by vdo. But here they may have deliberately not uploaded the vdo.

Regards
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: Hippocrates on March 10, 2025, 04:46:51 pm
On the contravention there's nothing we can do til we see the video so focus on getting it.

There may be issues with Hillingdon's process and another member may know more.



First. the PCN is invalid re the increase. Not before the end of 28 days of the PCN date. They can only serve a C.C. after 28 days from the date of service. This is yet another council with the wrong date, Haringey and Hounslow being the others.  Must be an alphabetical problem.

Second, back later with a draft..

@cp8759 re the PCN.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: MrChips on March 10, 2025, 04:03:59 pm
When you say you "challenged" the PCN, did you submit formal representations against the PCN, or a simple request for the video footage pending submitting representations?

I'd suggest you attempt to contact the council by phone or email to bring to their attention the lack of video (not sure how easy this will be - some councils make direct contact difficult!).
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: stamfordman on March 10, 2025, 11:03:14 am
On the contravention there's nothing we can do til we see the video so focus on getting it.

There may be issues with Hillingdon's process and another member may know more.
Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on March 10, 2025, 01:24:29 am
I have received this reply from them after i have challeneged the PCN, although now I coudl not see the video evidence on the link, its not accessible.

What other ways i can view the video and how do I proceed now. I have now requested for SAR from council, if they send me over the video however I think overall it wont be more than few seconds while I was moving ahead with that rush hour traffic quite slowly but not stationary.

Any help is appreciated

Regards

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Title: Re: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: MrChips on March 09, 2025, 12:53:37 am
I can't get the video to work either.  Unless one of the team here can extract it you may need to get in touch with the council.
Title: Hillingdon council 31J - Entering stopping box junction PCN HN71513688
Post by: mairajbhaii on March 09, 2025, 12:32:10 am
Hi I received this PCN, HN71513688, kindly help what can be done, I have appealed to make some time as the traffic was moving slow and the cars in front stalled although signal was green, morning rush hour, also I had my 7 month old daughter crying at back child seat who's seat strap I was adjusting while the traffic was moving very slow. Video is not viewing properly.

Any help is appreciated

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