Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: yorkshirepudding on March 08, 2025, 02:28:40 pm

Title: Re: What is the outcome for ignoring a private pcn?
Post by: b789 on March 09, 2025, 12:42:24 pm
I have yet to see a single PCN issued by any unregulated private parking company that does not have at least a single breach of PoFA or the PPSCoP. These companies have had nearly 13 years to get their PCNs worded correctly with regards to PoFA, yet it suits them to continue continue issuing them with the various omissions or errors because the overwhelming majority of recipients are none the wiser of their rights.

The PPSCoP is yet another attempt to protect the industry from the upcoming legislation that, if ever implemented, is going to send a large chunk of these ex-clampers to the wall. The BPA and breakaway IPC are not set up to actually regulate their members. Their primary objective is protection their members fr9m over regulation and to lobby on their behalf.

You only have to look at the directors of these organisations and see that they are nothing but incestuous and are a conflict of interest. The public are a trough of pigswill and these companies have their snouts firmly embedded. The source of easy money that funds these companies is not only endless, mostly free from VAT, so the exchequer, gets a reduced benefit.

With over 40,000 private parking charges issued every day, the sums involved are huge. If these companies had any real motivation to do their jobs properly, you’d expect to see some sort of improvement over time. You don’t.

There are plenty of locations that do not need these firms infesting them. For many of the smaller car parks or residential locations, it is well known within the industry that some of these companies actually set up the locations with their own vehicles parking in such a way as to cause problems and then they approach the landowner/agent with an offer of free installation of ANPR and signs and a promise that their car park problems will vanish overnight. In the meantime, innocent residents or motorists start receiving PCNs, more often than not unlawfully in residential cases, and the nightmare begins.

There are many examples of these parking companies, instead of “managing” these car parks, actually drive away business over time, leaving the hapless landowner wondering what went wrong. To presume that they serve a good purpose when their behaviour has caused parliament to react and have to create new legislation to try and control their prolific abuse of the courts system is evidence enough that these are not companies with the public interest in mind.

Don’t even get me started on the abuse of byelaws and fake penalty notices that can only be explained as extortion. The fact that the BPA and POPLA are complicit says enough about those two organisations show the corruption that is endemic in this industry.

So, yes, I am passionate about the rights of motorists to fight against these corrupt, ex-clampers who are unjustly enriched. That they cannot get the legislation right, either through ignorance or, more likely, because there are enough, what I lake to call low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree, out there who have no idea of their rights or that they are being conned, to make it worthwhile for them to continue feeding on this gravy train.

What we see here and over on MSE are a minute fraction of the abuse. Yes, there will be plenty of PCN recipients that think they’ve been caught banged to rights and simply pay up at the “mugs discount” and get on with their lives. However, you only have to spend a little time reading the cases we have on here to see that there is very little “management” of car parking and a whole lot more of abuse and corruption.

I’m not sure how many of these cases that we’ve seen go to court over the last year or so actually reach a hearing and been lost by the defendant. What we do know is that the majority of those that do end up as a claim, never get heard in front of a judge.

So, whilst I may be passionate about these issues and have no fear of exposing my utter contempt for these bottom-dwelling vermin, to date, I have not had a single case that has made it all the way to court and lose. I will continue to campaign on behalf of anyone who has received a PCN from a company that cannot get its act together for what ever reason reason and do so lawfully.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Title: Re: What is the outcome for ignoring a private pcn?
Post by: jfollows on March 09, 2025, 11:26:55 am
Quote from: DWMB2 on March 09, 2025, 10:28:33 am
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some of the posts on here are as bad when it comes to emotive and misleading wording

We regularly see parking companies spout clear and demonstrable lies in their correspondence. I don't regularly see posters on here spout clear and demonstrable lies - any who do see their posts deleted, and any persistent offenders will see their accounts suffer a similar fate.
I agree.
Whilst believing anything posted here needs to be done with care - especially anything I might post - they’re generally made with good intent. Conversely, I’m sometimes disgusted with the downright lies spouted by parking companies in order to extract some kind of ££££.

Things like “we’ve complied with PoFA to hold the registered keeper liable because we posted the notice within 14 days”. Complete rubbish.

The legislation has been in place for more than ten years, yet companies deliberately misrepresent it in face of individuals who have little experience in the hope that they can intimidate them into paying up.
Title: Re: What is the outcome for ignoring a private pcn?
Post by: DWMB2 on March 09, 2025, 10:28:33 am
Quote
some of the posts on here are as bad when it comes to emotive and misleading wording

We regularly see parking companies spout clear and demonstrable lies in their correspondence. I don't regularly see posters on here spout clear and demonstrable lies - any who do see their posts deleted, and any persistent offenders will see their accounts suffer a similar fate.

I don't want this thread to turn into a general debate about the merits of various approaches. I think the consensus seems to be that ignoring a PCN does not fatally wound one's chances of defending the matter if a court claim is issued. I think another general consensus is that we seldom, if ever, actively recommend ignoring a PCN, as there are several potential benefits to engaging in the process from the outset.
Title: Re: What is the outcome for ignoring a private pcn?
Post by: ixxy on March 09, 2025, 08:43:58 am
And whilst a CCJ is a remote possibility and avoidable (by paying if the court judgement goes against you) it can have some fairly serious consequences for people.

There is a clear basis in contract law thanks to Beavis vs Parking Eye 10 years ago, so despite some of the more hyperbolic posters on here claiming that are all private parking companies are scammers they do provide a legitimate if unwelcome service to land owners who otherwise would have next to no control over their land as the law stands today.

That said some of the smaller companies are cavalier with the rules ar best, mistakes happen and there are genuine reasons why a PCN is not valid or has been issued incorrectly.

Often cases are dropped before they get to court, mainly because it costs private parking companies to take people to court so they only take enough to keep it a real possible outcome.

There are legitimate ways to beat PCNs, lack of POFA compliance negating the ability of the PPC holding the keeper liable being the main one. However looking for every imagined loophole in the wording of a PCN isn't a surefire defence and would require some tenacity over many months.

How people respond to a PCN should be dependant on their circumstances, if they have a genuine reason for appeal, honest mistake, frustration of contract, genuine customer, then it is absolutely worth appealing, to the land owner first although the landowner should set the appeals rules with the PPC.

Similarly some people find the whole process very stressful and difficult, if financial circumstances allow it may be better for them to pay the discounted rate (which is not a mugs discount, just reflects the longer it's unpaid the more it costs the PPC to pursue it). Debt collection letters can be quite intimidating if ultimately toothless, of course they are, if they were meek and polite they would all be ignored.

Not everyone is a consumer rights champion or consumed with beating the system. It's worth remembering that, some of the posts on here are as bad when it comes to emotive and misleading wording as some of the PPC correspondence.
Title: Re: What is the outcome for ignoring a private pcn?
Post by: DWMB2 on March 08, 2025, 06:24:25 pm
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You can ignore a private parking PCN
That said, on this forum, we generally advise against ignoring them.

Where you have a reason why you don't owe the money, it's generally sensible to set this out. If you do so with sound advice (from here for example) so you don't shoot yourself in the foot, there's little to lose by responding, and potentially plenty to gain.

There's a "bloke down the pub" in every licenced premises in the land who swears blind that parking companies can't do anything and you can ignore everything (including claim forms) and it'll eventually go away. Some of the recipients of that pub wisdom find themselves here seeking advice, having ended up with a CCJ in default.
Title: Re: What is the outcome for ignoring a private pcn?
Post by: b789 on March 08, 2025, 04:24:39 pm
Once more, the failure of our eduction system to prepare everyone for the basic processes of civil litigation in adult life comes to the fore...

Sadly, the vast majority of Sheeple have no real idea about how a CCJ gets on to your credit record and all the private parking companies rely on this ignorance to pluck the low-hanging fruit from the gullible tree.

You can ignore a private parking PCN, which is nothing more than a speculative invoice for an alleged breach of contract by the driver, up to the point a civil debt claim is made in the small claims track of the county court. Once an N1SDT Claim Form is received, it is imperative that it is responded to, preferably by defending against the claim.

Have a read of the process that has to be concluded before a CCJ can be put on your credit record:

What CCJ? Do you have any understanding of how someone gets a CCJ? Nothing we advise on here will make anyone get a CCJ.

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A County Court Judgment (CCJ) does not just happen—it follows a clear legal process. If someone gets a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from a private parking company, here's what happens step by step:

1. Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Issued

• The parking company sends a letter (Notice to Keeper) demanding money.

• This is not a fine—it’s an invoice for an alleged breach of contract.

2. Opportunity to Appeal

• The recipient can appeal to the parking company.

•If rejected, they may be able to appeal to POPLA (if BPA member) or IAS (if IPC member).

• If an appeal is lost or ignored, the parking company demands payment.

3. Debt Collection Letters

• The parking company might send scary letters or pass the case to a debt collector.

• Debt collectors have no power—they just send letters and can be ignored.

• No CCJ happens at this stage.

4. Letter Before Claim (LBC)

• If ignored for long enough, the parking company (or their solicitor) sends a Letter Before Claim (LBC).

• This is a warning that they may start a court case.

• The recipient has 30 days to reply before a claim is filed.

• No CCJ happens at this stage.

5. County Court Claim Issued

• If ignored or unpaid, the parking company may file a claim with the County Court.

• The court sends a Claim Form with details of the claim and how to respond.

• The recipient has 14 days to respond (or 28 days if they acknowledge it).

• No CCJ happens at this stage.

6. Court Process

• If the recipient defends the claim, a judge decides if they owe money.

• If the recipient ignores the claim, the parking company wins by default.

• No CCJ happens yet unless the recipient loses and ignores the court.

7. Judgment & Payment

• If the court rules that money is owed, the recipient has 30 days to pay in full.

• If they pay within 30 days, no CCJ goes on their credit file.

• If they don’t pay within 30 days, the CCJ stays on their credit file for 6 years.

Conclusion

CCJs do not appear out of thin air. They only happen if:

• A parking company takes the case to court.

• The person loses or ignores the case.

• The person fails to pay within 30 days.

If you engage with the process (appeal, defend, or pay on time), no CCJ happens.

As for Sheeple pooping their pants and worrying about bailiffs knocking on their door, here is some more advice to dispel the irrational and unfounded fears:

Quote
Why no bailiff can knock on your door

1. County Court Judgment (CCJ):

• A bailiff (enforcement agent) can only get involved after a creditor has obtained a CCJ against you in a county court.
• If the CCJ is under £600, the creditor cannot transfer it to the High Court for enforcement by a High Court Enforcement Officer (HCEO). Instead, enforcement would remain under the county court's jurisdiction.

2. Threshold for High Court Enforcement:

• If a CCJ is over £600 (including fees and interest), the creditor can transfer it to the High Court for enforcement by an HCEO. This is a common method because HCEOs tend to be more effective at recovering money.

3. Cost-Benefit Analysis for Creditors:

• For CCJs under £600, creditors may find it uneconomical to pursue enforcement through county court bailiffs, as they are generally slower and less effective than HCEOs.
• As a result, creditors may opt not to escalate enforcement for small amounts.

4. Private Parking Charges and Bailiffs:

• In the context of private parking charges, no bailiff action can occur unless the parking operator has gone to court, won a case, obtained a CCJ, and you fail to pay the judgment within the stipulated time (usually 30 days).

So, no bailiff will come to your door for a debt under £600 unless the creditor deems it worth pursuing through county court enforcement. However, even if the debt is over £600, bailiff involvement only happens after a CCJ is issued, and enforcement is transferred to the High Court.
Title: Re: What is the outcome for ignoring a private pcn?
Post by: yorkshirepudding on March 08, 2025, 03:18:44 pm
Thank you, I have had a look at quite a few cases on here but cannot find anything beyond CCJ. I shall take another look.

Thanks for your response.
Title: Re: What is the outcome for ignoring a private pcn?
Post by: jfollows on March 08, 2025, 02:57:31 pm
You need to make the effort to read up on countless examples here, however the likely “worst case” is of losing a civil claim in your absence, not paying, and having a CCJ recorded against you. The private companies make a lot of this, but the reality is that this only happens if you’re incompetent and ignore everything.

Under contract law, the plaintiff has six years to bring a case against you for breach of contract.
Title: Re: What is the outcome for ignoring a private pcn?
Post by: yorkshirepudding on March 08, 2025, 02:44:59 pm
Yes, however I'm having trouble finding out what the ultimate outcome is for ignoring a private pcn, rather than one issued by a council or other body.  Trying to figure out worst case scenario.  Apologies if posted in the wrong section or if the information I am after is elsewhere on the site, I couldn't find it.
Title: Re: What is the outcome for ignoring a private pcn?
Post by: DWMB2 on March 08, 2025, 02:31:47 pm
Does this relate to a live PCN?
Title: What is the outcome for ignoring a private pcn?
Post by: yorkshirepudding on March 08, 2025, 02:28:40 pm
Can anyone explain the timeline of events please for totally ignoring a private parking charge notice.  Is the ultimate outcome a county court judgement, or do they take this further and attempt bailiff recovery of debt or take from earnings? I assume if the company go to court then they expect to recover all of their costs somehow?

Thank you