Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Speeding and other criminal offences => Topic started by: settop23 on March 04, 2025, 11:31:30 am
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Perhaps offer me a motorway awareness course, although I completed one in February 2021
The court has no power to order a course (whether you're eligible or not).
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Thank you for all the advice. I think I will plead guilty to the SJPN and include a covering letter explaining the circumstances in the hope that they will show some leniency on the points. Perhaps offer me a motorway awareness course, although I completed one in February 2021
Sorry, three points is the minimum, there's no room for leniency. And the court cannot offer a course.
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Thank you for all the advice. I think I will plead guilty to the SJPN and include a covering letter explaining the circumstances in the hope that they will show some leniency on the points. Perhaps offer me a motorway awareness course, although I completed one in February 2021
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i still think there was not enough of a gap for me to move over or stop safely
The gantries are designed so that they are visible from a minimum distance of 300m (roughly 10 seconds at 70mph).
If you know what your speed was (presumably much less than 70mph as there were lane closures) you will be able to work out the minimum time you would have been able to see the red X.
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Thanks - I understand however i still think there was not enough of a gap for me to move over or stop safely, as there were vehicles behind me. I did make effort to move over or stop, such as reducing my speed but did not want to cause a collision.
Would you advise me to plead guilty via post and accept 3 points? I would like to avoid any penalty points, I already have 3 penalty points on my license albeit they expire next year. I have been a full time taxi driver for over 30 years with no other driving offences or accidents in this time.
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I don’t think you are approaching this correctly.
The arrows advising you to change lane are not mandatory. They are advisory and are accompanied by yellow flashing lights. There is no penalty for ignoring them.
The red “X” is accompanied by red flashing lights and is mandatory. You must not proceed beyond it in the lane to which it applies. It does not mean you may do so if you are unable to move safely to an open lane. It is equivalent to red traffic light and your only option, if you cannot change lanes, is to stop.
I cannot see how knowing how long the preceding “arrow” signs were illuminated will help you. The red X which you passed had been displayed for 30 minutes and it would have been visible from good distance as you approached it.
But if this isn’t recorded or logged then the judge would simply find me Guilty based on one photo of my car in the red X lane,
There’s every likelihood of that, with or without the information about the arrows.
Despite me saying in court that the arrows were not clearly displayed in both lanes and did not give me enough time to safely move over before the red x was displayed..
Then in those circumstances you should have stopped. The court will be aware of that. It’s explained here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/motorway-signs-signals-and-road-markings#motorway-signals-and-variable-signs
“When red lights are flashing above your lane, you must stop unless you can move safely to a lane where red signals are not showing.”
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Hi
I will email info@nationalhighways.co.uk (is that the correct email if anybody has done it before)
And ask about the logs. Hopefully they will provide me with some clarification on how long I had to move out of the lane before I was flashed.
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ask the highways agency for the logs.
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I’m not actually sure if it was one or two gantries that displayed the arrows, nor am I sure if they were in the first lane, second lane or both lanes.
Surely there should be a record of how long and which lanes the white arrows were displayed.
But if this isn’t recorded or logged then the judge would simply find me
Guilty based on one photo of my car in the red X lane, with traffic behind me and next to me. Despite me saying in court that the arrows were not clearly displayed in both lanes and did not give me enough time to safely move over before the red x was displayed
I appreciate the advice and input from everybody, I will decide in the next few days which way to plead
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Before you enter your plea you are only entitled to "The Initial Details of the Prosecution Case". This is basically the evidence the police intend to rely on to see you convicted.
If you want anything else and the police will not provide it, you must ask the court to order its disclosure. The court will want to know why you want it and you will have to show why you believe it will either assist your defence or undermine the prosecution's case.
You don't seem to dispute that you had at least the distance between two gantries to move to the next lane so the time the red Xs were displayed seems not to be an issue. You have already been told that the one you passed had been displayed for 30 minutes. How far beyond them you went will do nothing to show you are not guilty. It may provide mitigation but the offence is committed as soon as you pass the gantry.
And all this assumes there is any other evidence. You mention "video" evidence. Do you suppose that motorways are regularly video'd 24/7?
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I’m not sure why any of that would be disclosed to you. The offence is not “driving past a red x 10 seconds after it came on”, so what is the relevance of how long it had been displayed for?
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Thanks - at least that some consolation. If i decided to plead not guilty and the matter went to court, would i be able to request more video / photo evidence such as how long the arrows were displayed for prior to the RED x, and how long I was driving in the red X lane before i moved over? Can i request this information before i make my plea?
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3 points. Same as if you plead not guilty and are convicted - although pleading guilty will reduce the fine and surcharge by 1/3 and the prosecution costs by about £530.
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Thank you. What would be the likely penalty in terms of points if I was to plead guilty?
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The photographs not only show your vehicle in the lane closed by the Red X, they also show that the lane outside yours appears to have spaces that you could have moved over into, it might have been a bit tight but the other vehicles would no doubt have adjusted their positioning. Driving passed the Red X is the equivalent of driving through a red light. I think you have every chance of being found guilty of the offence, and you would be well advised to plead guilty, if you are found guilty after a trial not only will you have the fine to pay but also prosecution costs of at least £650.
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This is why I would like to know how long the arrows were displayed for, and in which lanes, before the photograph was taken at 21:14. as well as wanting to know how long i was in the RED X lane for.
I was in the first lane when i saw one white arrow saying i must move out of the first lane. After this i continued in the second lane and then I saw another white arrows displayed in the second lane saying i must move over to the third lane. I cannot remember how long I was in each lane for, but as soon as I saw the arrows i made efforts to move out of the lane as soon as possible. The motorway was congested and it was dark, so lots of bright lights in all the mirrors.
Any advice on how to proceed generally would be appreciated. If I can request this information and there is chance of being found not guilty I would prefer this route. However if it is pretty certain I will be found guilty in court either way I would like to minimise the penalty as much as possible (I realise this will be harder having not accepted the fixed penalty)
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Why did you not move over when the white arrows told you to do so?
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Yes i did see that. I believe the red X had been set at that location for 30 minutes. However prior to this location there were no RED X signs - only (white) arrows telling me I must move over from the first lane, and then the second lane. So at the point the photo was taken (21:14:25) there was a red X there that had been there for 30mins 8secs and my vehicle was in that lane. However prior to this point there were only arrows, firstly in the first lane and then just before the RED X the arrows also appeared in the second lane. So I did not have enough time to move over, and could not come to a complete stop as there is a car behind me. Is there anyway to find out how long I was in the RED X lane for?
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I would like to know how long the arrows and red X was displayed for
One of the images you have uploaded says: "Time Since Red X Set: 0 days 0 hrs 30 mins 8 secs"
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Yes my only defence is that I moved over as soon as I could when I saw the arrows and pRED x.
There was traffic behind me which is why I did not choose to come to a complete stop.
I would like to know how long the arrows and red X was displayed for and how long I was driving in the closed lane for. As far as I can remember I only saw white arrows (not red) whilst I was trying to move over and the RED x was only displayed for a matter of seconds.
The photos show 2 timestamp within 1 second of each other where the red x is displayed
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I have a suspicion that you may be found guilty.
The law is quite clear: you must not proceed beyond a gantry in a lane where the red arrow is displayed. I am not ware of any exceptions being provided.
As I understand it, the only alternative if you find yourself unable to move to an open lane is to stop.
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Well, what do you think your defence is? It is anything more than “I moved over when I could”?
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Hello,
In august 2024, I receieved a NIP for the offence of 'Drive on motorway, failed to comply with red/green arrow/lane closure signals on the M6 from staffordshire police. My speed was recorded at 39mph.
When I received the NIP I was dismayed. I was driving on the motorway in the first lane of the motorway when I remember seeing some arrows above the first lane of the motorway indicating I should move over to the next lane. As the motorway was heavily congested I wasn’t able to move to the second lane straight away but managed to move across to it.
a few hundred yards after this I noticed the lane I was currently in now had a red x above it and I needed to move over. Again because of the congestion it took me a bit of time to move over but when it was safe to do so I did.
I checked the pictures of the offence (attached) and indeed there was a car and truck in the lane next to me and also a vehicle behind me. I admitted to being the driver and opted to take the matter to court instead of accepting the fixed penalty notice (I have already dont a motorway awareness course for speeding in the last 3 years)
on 18/02/2024 I receieved a SJPN. I intend to plead not guilty and take the matter to court. I am posting here to get some general advice on how to prepare my defence and how to proceed. The SJPN has a deadline of 11 March to make my plea.
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