Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Angeldude on March 03, 2025, 06:04:33 pm
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Thank you.
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OP, I don't know where this thread is going.
To split the two distinct elements again:
Do you owe the council £205? Yes. They went through the enforcement process to the point of your appeal which you lost. There's nothing you can do about this within procedure because none of the procedural grounds applies. Whether you received a CC and OfR is not relevant IMO because these aren't grounds for submitting an SD anyway.
You did not receive the Penalty Charge Notice in question; but you did,
You made representations to the Enforcement Authority concerned but did not receive a Notice of Rejection from that authority; but you did,
You appealed to the adjudicator against the rejection by the Enforcement Authority of your representations but had no response to the appeal. But you did.
As regards the enforcement agent's fees, IMO this is a different matter but there is no adjudicator to help you here so you sit outside the enforcement process. I hope bailiffonline might be able to help.
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Have you moved? You got the PCN at your home address as on the logbook presumably.
This is what the status says on Lambeth's site. The adjudication was on 10 September but Lambeth says:
You have already challenged this PCN and we replied on Fri, 25 Oct 2024. You cannot challenge twice
So where's this reply?
(https://i.imgur.com/4bliIz6.png)
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i received a notice of enforcement from the bailiffs. I have not seen any other documents with the title youre requesting. Are these all from the council?
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You've still not answered the questions.
Did you get a charge certificate and an order for recovery? And an enforcement notice (not the hand delivered one you've posted).
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To be honest, I was still trying to think up the right questions to ask on Bailiff advice online. So, I opted to call instead. There was no response, so I left my details for a callback in a couple of hours. With the response from Lambeth, it was a call handler who made the suggestion, so it may not be the best advice. When I got the response of taking it to court, I was under the impression that I'd be invited to a hearing, but I was informed that it was for them to activate the bailiffs.
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Witness Statement? Are you sure they said that? A WS is for a parking contravention and yours is a moving traffic contravention which normally require a Statutory Declaration. And in this case a supporting Out of Time application.
However I don't see that any of the limited grounds apply to you so you cannot lawfully submit an SD or a WS. Did they suggest what ground to tick on the form?
You haven't told us what happened after your first Tribunal hearing, case 2240347580. The Adjudicator ordered you to pay the penalty. That much is clear
However you've told us "This was taken to the independent Adjudicators twice who ruled against me, which I am still totally confused about."
Do you mean that you requested that the London Tribunals review your case 2240347580 and the Tribunal refused to schedule a review? Or was the review held? If so, what happened?
OK so from your last post it looks like you requested a review but the Tribunal declined to hold a review. A review is not another opportunity to appeal. A review is only granted in very limited circumstances. You had already lost your appeal.
And have you contacted Bailiff Advice Online? What did they say?
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Apologies for not responding to the previous questions. I'm not very familiar with this system.
1. I submitted an appeal, but it was refused, not heard.
2. Lambeth was progressing their process while my appeal was being responded to. The only pause there was occurred for the initial process.
3. I did receive all the paperwork sent, but it was while i waited for a response from the tribunal, and after that i started searching for advice on another site which led me to yours. (The MSE Forum)
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Good morning!
First of all, I just want to thank all of you for your intellectual contributions, its helped me grow in awareness of the system. Regardless of how this ends, I appreciate all that you've said and done.
I contacted Lambeth today and explained that I was away when the bailiff transfer was completed and was unable to respond to it. Even though I have an issue with the way the PCN was dealt with, I would have never let it reach the bailiff stage. I was advised to call Northampton court to fill out a witness statement, which may possibly, annul the bailiff action if accepted. I just wanted to run this past you guys and hear if you have any input to add before I make the call.
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I don't wish to sound blunt, but you have been asked 7 questions, and so far answered none of them. The quality of advice members are able to give is dependent on the quality of information you give them to work with.
You had an appeal heard at London Tribunals and lost, and then asked for a review which was refused?
So what happened after you lost at the tribunal?
Do you mean that you requested that the London Tribunals review your case 2240347580 and the Tribunal refused to schedule a review? Or was the review held?
What stage are you at with the bailiff? Did you receive a Notice of Enforcement demanding £280 (£205 +£75) with seven clear days to pay? What's the deadline or post up the NoE.
Did you get all of the above docs?
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Is there no way i can take this case to court or any other solution to this to stop the bailiff action?
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Thank you.
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It looks like you're beyond the Notice of Enforcement stage which would be £280. The bailiff has visited and now wants the additional £235 Enforcement Stage fee. They were probably looking for your bike with a view to clamping it and then impounding it.
When you failed to pay the penalty after you lost at adjudication, the Council would have issued a Charge Certificate for £195.
When you didn't pay the CC the Council would have served on you an Order for Recovery for £205.
When you didn't pay the OfR the Council would have applied for a Local Authority warrant and then engaged the enforcement agents (aka bailiff). They bailiff would have posted a Notice of Enforcement totalling £280.
When you didn't pay the NoE the bailiff visited and that added a further £235 to the £280. So £515.
Did you get all of the above docs?
I don't see that you have any options left.
I suggest that you contact Bailiff Advice Online (https://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/) immediately and seek advice on handling the bailiff. Maybe negotiate an installment plan.
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The OP has had a bailiff visit it seems. But this is the only document he's posted subsequent to the tribunal decision.
(https://i.imgur.com/f9l8TJw.jpeg)
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OP, this is the enforcement process.
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/moving-traffic-pcn-enforcement-process
In particular please read the section Statutory Declaration. This applies 'If, and only if, one of these [grounds] applies:
You did not receive the Penalty Charge Notice in question; or
You made representations to the Enforcement Authority concerned but did not receive a Notice of Rejection from that authority; or
You appealed to the adjudicator against the rejection by the Enforcement Authority of your representations but had no response to the appeal.
If this was followed, then after not complying with the adjudicator's direction to pay and then ignoring the authority's Charge Certificate and Order for Recovery you owe the authority £205.
As regards bailiffs, whether you also owe them their fees is a different matter. As per Enceladus, if you've received a Notice of Enforcement but the latest date has not passed then you also owe them £75. You could also owe them an additional £235.
Totals:
Authority: £205
Bailiff: Compliance Fee - £75?
Enforcement Fee - £235?
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It's LT case nr. 2240347580.
There's no mention of a review. @Angeldude you told us that "This was taken to the independent Adjudicators twice who ruled against me, which I am still totally confused about." Do you mean that you requested that the London Tribunals review your case 2240347580 and the Tribunal refused to schedule a review? Or was the review held?
What stage are you at with the bailiff? Did you receive a Notice of Enforcement demanding £280 (£205 +£75) with seven clear days to pay? What's the deadline or post up the NoE.
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You had an appeal heard at London Tribunals and lost, and then asked for a review which was refused?
At that point you had to pay the penalty. If you didn't it would escalate to debt recovery.
I've read the decision and the adjudicator said Lambeth had behaved badly in not cancelling but the tribunal must follow the law.
So what happened after you lost at the tribunal?
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Good day,
Following the rules the required details are as follows:
COUNCIL- LAMBETH COUNCIL
CONTRAVENTION: 52m- FAILING TO COMPLY WITH A PROHIBITION ON CERTAIN TYPES OF VEHICLES (MOTOR VEHICLES)
PCN NUMBER: LJ28811356
REGISTRATION NUMBER: LC17MUA
DATE: 20TH JUNE 2024
TIME: 16:50
LOCATION: SANDMERE ROAD CLAPHAM SW4
I was issued a PCN for entering an emissions-controlled street in Lambeth. My understanding was that the vehicle needed to be mechanically propelled. My motorcycle was malfunctiong. I had tried the following;
- Getting it towed but the waiting time frame was too long
-The cost implication to get a tow to a repair center just 10 minutes away was over £100.
Leaving my motorcycle would either get me a PCN, a tow, or vandalism from teenagers who either steal or destroy. Lastly, I needed it for work.
I proceeded to push it all the way. I saw an opportunity to cut the journey short by using a street with a no entry sign to drivers. I was physically pushing a non functional motorcycle and believed this did not apply to me.
Received a PCN for the day in question. I apologized for the usage and explained my circumstances and even provided a repair receipt for the date in question, but it was refused. They stated that by pushing it, that was mechanical propulsion.
This was taken to the independent Adjudicators twice who ruled against me, which I am still totally confused about. I was hoping for my day in court, but it has now been placed in the hands of bailiffs as of yesterday.
To reiterate on my stance:
- I used the street because it was safer in the sense that I was pushing a heavy motorcycle down a street with traffic moving from both directions with impatient patient drivers.
- There was a risk of hurting myself, (I had already fallen from the weight of my bike and it was a wet day), hurting pedestrians, damaging other people's vehicles if it was to fall on a car.
- I could not tow because of the waiting time, cost, safety implications and faced a penalty risk if I left it.
I had also looked into reasons why the controls existed
- Emissions reduction
- Reduced traffic congestion
- Noise pollution
- Safety for children/pedestrians
- Parking for the local residents and visitors.
With a non-functional motorcycle weighing over 300kg, I'm a cyclist and pedestrian myself, moving 1 meter a minute with no emissions released, no sound pollution, moving too slow to be a risk to any pedestrian but myself, and having no intention to park as it was a pushing path to the mechanic workshop. Most importantly, I have my repair receipt for the day.
The law exists to protect us, but I feel victimized by its expression in this situation. I'd appreciate your legal perspective and suggestions on how to proceed.
WETRANSFER PHOTOLINK- https://we.tl/t-MENs6ukNsA