Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: polbb on February 28, 2025, 02:15:12 pm
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Is this something worth trying?
No - the IAS are useless. Even if they weren't, at present we'd struggle to help you with an appeal to them, for the reasons b789 has mentioned above, mainly that we still have no idea what (if any) parking rights you have by virtue of the landlord's lease.
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Unfortunately getting information from my Landlord is very difficult. I have requested already with no response. I need to consider options.
My question now is specifically about the independent appeal service.
Is this something worth trying? Is it the correct legal procedure?
Thanks
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What does the landlords head lease say about parking? We know your lease/AST says nothing.
This is like pulling teeth. In most cases of residential parking issues, the land is owned by someone. Either the landlord or possibly the leaseholder. There will be terms and covenants in the lease of that land. Those terms or covenants are supreme when it comes to arguing what rights anyone has to impose additional terms that usurp the original lease. The terms of the otpriginsl lease cannot simply be changed, not even by the leaseholder without a due legal process covered by tatie law.
So, we would need to know the status of the land where your vehicle was parked in order to know what defence you have against the PCN you received from a third party. Get your landlord to tell you what the terms of their lease say about parking at the property.
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No, absolutely nothing about parking spaces in my lease. I have revised many time already.
I received a reponse to my appeal today:
Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge Notice.
At UK CPM we consider all appeals on a case-by-case basis. We take each appeal very seriously and thoroughly investigate any evidence that has been provided. We appreciate your circumstances and understand this is not a situation anyone would like to find themselves in; however, these parking conditions have been put in place to ensure fair usage for all motorists and support the needs of our client. After careful consideration, it is unfortunate that I am writing to you today to advise that on this occasion, your appeal has been unsuccessful.
The decision to uphold your parking charge notice has been made on the following basis.
Whilst we note the comments and reason for appeal, as per our photographic evidence, the vehicle was parked in contravention of the advertised terms and conditions. As the vehicle was parked without a valid virtual permit for the full and correct registration, we can confirm that this PCN has been issued correctly.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and therefore you now have two options; either pay or appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS) - you cannot do both.
To make payment of the total amount due as shown above, please use one of the following payment options;
Online: www.paymyticket.co.uk
Telephone: 0345 463 4040 (24hr)
Post: Payments & Collections, PO Box 3114, Lancing, BN15 5BR
Alternatively, if you do not agree with your internal appeal outcome and you wish to dispute the matter further, as you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 28 days of this rejection.
The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. If you decide to appeal to the IAS, you will need to visit their website and use your PCN reference and corresponding vehicle registration. All PCN's will be uploaded to the IAS website by the end of this working day.
If you appeal this charge further then you will lose the ability to pay at the reduced rate (if applicable). In the event that your IAS appeal is unsuccessful, the full amount for the PCN will then be payable. If you lodge an appeal with the IAS and then subsequently pay the charge prior to that appeal being determined, then the appeal will be withdrawn, and you will not be given a further opportunity to contest the charge.
If you do not wish to dispute the matter further and payment is not received within 28 days of the date of this correspondence then additional charges may be incurred, for which you may be liable. If the charge continues to remain outstanding, the matter may be later referred for litigation in the County Court which could result in a County Court Judgment being made against you; this may impact on your ability to obtain credit in the future.
Is it worth using this The Independent Appeals Service?
Thanks for the help
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Is there a parking space included in the lease? What does the lease say about parking?
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No, we did not discuss anything related to parking when I applied for my tenancy as I didn't have a car by then in 2016
I suppose I can contact my Landlord and ask.
What exactly do I need to know from him?
Thanks for all the help
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Then you need to ask your landlord what the pit lease says about parking. Was any mention made about parking when you applied for the tenancy?
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I would not be able to answer that question.
I just did a quick search and possibly the Landowner is Hyde housing. The Estate is managed by Hyde Group.
I just found some info: https://www.hyde-housing.co.uk/tenants/car-parking/
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I fear we're at risk of going round in circles here. polbb, you will need to do some digging in order to provide us with some information. It might be useful for us to know:
- Who owns the land upon which your car was parked
- Whether you park in a specific marked spot, or in any available space on the car park
- Any written correspondence exchanged outlining an agreement regarding parking
In most residential cases we see, a car parking space is provided as part of the tenancy. In your case, you tell us this is not so. However, the nature of any agreement you have around parking is likely to shape the content of any defence against the charge, so we need to try and figure out what's what.
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Who is the landowner of the parking spaces? It certainly isn’t CPM.
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I rent the flat where I live from a private landlord.
The flat is part of a estate managed by a Company called Hyde Village in Islington post code N7.
The Estate has many parking spaces available and permanent residents can apply to have one. I did apply to Hyde Village. They used to manage the parking spaces themselves. Now they hired cpm to manage the parking spaces for the estate.
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So, are you saying that your property does not come with any parking space whatsoever? Or, are there parking spaces that are part of the property but the management company just allocate those some sort of contract with CPM?
Who owns the land where you park the car?
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I pay CPM for the parking space.
I am a resident of a Estate managed by Hyde Village and they use CPM for managing parking spaces.
I have an account with CPM. I revised the confirmation emails after paying and they do not provide any contract after payment or any other form of agreement. At least I have not been able to find the information easily on their email;s or in the web account
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You say you pay for the parking space. Who do you pay? You must have some form of contract from someone if you're paying for a parking space.
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Yes, I have just checked again my tenancy agreement and the agreement does not include any specific clauses about parking rights, allocated spaces, or permits.
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You must remember that your lease has supremacy of contract over any third party to try and restrict your rights. The management company or the landowner cannot simply override your lease on a whim. Anything that materially changes or varies the terms of your lease must be Doen through the correct legal channels and comply with the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, section 37.5 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/31/section/37).
Are you saying that your lease has absolutely no mention of parking at all? What do you have and from whom, that refers to your parking and a requirement to display a permit?
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Thank you very much for the information.
My tenancy agreement does not have any information about parking.
I have just checked about any form of contract when paying for my parking permit to CPM and there is no contract either as far as I can understand.
I am attaching their confirmation email, and the information that appears on my online account.
They did not notify or sent any reminders about my e-permit expiring.
I did contact them via email 3 days before my e-permit expired to notify that I need to renew and asked for instructions to do so (It was not possible to do from my online account)
So basically, I want to find out if in case they open a court case I would have strong grounds to defend myself if I do not pay the 2 parking invoices they have sent me.
Thank you very much again for the help
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The OP has said there is no mention of parking in their lease. Although this is somewhat surprising, so we need to know exactly what the arrangement is here
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It doesn't matter what the sigs say. What your lease/AST says about parking is what is important. What it doesn't say about parking is equally important. Just because some unregulated privater parking company puts up some signs because the management company has contracted them, does not override your supremacy of contract.
For, example, if your lease makes no mention of retiring a permit to be able to park in your demised space, then a bunch of ex-clampers putting up some signs saying that you do need a permit otherwise we are going to invoice you £100 each time that you do not display one, is not legally enforceable. So, what does your lease/AST say about parking?
Also, you should never have revealed the identity of the driver as their Notice t Keeper (NtK) is not fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA. If the driver is unknown to them, they cannot transfer liability to the Keeper. Have you blabbed the drivers identity when you communicated with them? There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company and the only way they would know the drivers identity is if the Keeper blabs, inadvertently or otherwise. When referring to the driver, do so in the third person only. No "I parked here or there", only "The driver parked here or there".
No one who is here receiving advice and following it pays a penny to the CPM.
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I am attaching the latest PCN, the one I received today Feb 28th.
The first one I received is exactly the sane except for the dates. I sent an appeal for this first one.
There plenty of signs all over the state with clear messages that this is a private car park and permits are required.
What I am trying to know, if if have a strong case in event of a court procedure because of negligence on their operations.
I was not able to renew the permit because they needed to delete some information from my account first.
I contacted them on Feb 13th on a Thursday explaining that I needed to renew and could not do it online. My permit expired on Feb 16th on a Sunday.
By Feb 25th no one had replied and on that day I received the first PCN with an offence dated 19th of Feb. Then is when I search online for a number and called and they explain why the website was not working, they needed to delete some older information.
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For now, please provide the information asked for in the 'Read This First' thread and we'll go from there.
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Thank you for the quick reply.
My tenancy agreement does not mention anything about car park.
But in order to obtain a parking bay, I contacted my Landlord in 2019 and he refereed me to the company that manages the estate where I live: Hyde Village.
I have hold the same parking bay since then. They used to manage the parking permit themselves but they have transitioned to use CPM.
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Welcome to FTLA.
To help us provide the best advice, please read the following thread carefully and provide as much of the information it asks for as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/)
As this is a residential case, in addition to the information set out in the 'Read This First' guide, we need to know the nature of the agreement regarding the parking space. Is this demised to you in your lease? If so, what is the exact wording of your lease in relation to the parking space?
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Hello,
I am a resident of Hyde Village which uses CPM to manage parking spaces.
I hold a parking space which I pay every year.
My e-permit was dues to renew on the 16th of Feb.
On 13th of Feb I logged on the CPM resident parking website attempting to renew my permit. There was no option to do so. On the website I could see the following information:
Application reference: 19865c2a768bcd18
Submitted: 06/02/2024 21:40
Status: Active
Active e-permits
Vehicle reg: xxxxxxx (Resident permit)
I went to the contact us link and they only contact method they provide is via email.
I sent an email on Feb 13th explaining that I need to renew my e-permit and there is no option on the web-page.
I waited until the monday after and no reply. I emailed again on Feb 17th explaining the situation. No reply.
I sent another email on Feb 23th, asking again if they could help with the renewal.
I received a Parking charge notice letter on Feb 25th. I was charged for not having appropriate permit.
I did a web-search trying to find a phone number so I could speak to someone. I did find one and called.
I spoke a representative and the person guided me through the process to renew the permit.
He asked to log into the resident permit site.
I did, exactly as I had done many times before. I explained there is no option.
The person asked for screenshots. I sent him via email a couple of screenshots.
He put me on hold and went to speak to a supervisor.
Then he came back and explained to me that I Did not see any options because they needed to manually delete the old application.
After they did this, I logged into the web portal and I could see the option to renew (on Feb 25th).
Since then I received another PCN, charged on the 23th of Feb because of not having a permit.
I have appealed the first PCN and still waiting for response. But I suspect they will deny my appeal as when speaking to the representative he mentioned that it was my responsibility to contact them with enough time in advance as they respond within 4/5 business days.
My question is, in case I ignore the invoices and they take me to court, Do I have strong grounds to win? Or better to save the headaches and pay?
Any advise would be much appreciated.