Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: nasmin on February 25, 2025, 11:10:37 am
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I am sure people have seen this already but in case anyone hasn’t. The recent overturning of illegal traffic restrictions by Lambeth council means that motorists who received and paid PCNs, specifically those issued in relation to the Street Improvement Scheme in West Dulwich, for driving through the traffic filters at Ardlui Road, Carson Road, Chatsworth Way, Eastmearn Road and Tulsemere Road, can apply for their refund on the council’s website – https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/wdhnrefund. It was a fairly easy and quick process so worth doing.
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My absolute pleasure as ever. We'll be in touch concerning the recent High Court Judgment.
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/lambeth-pcn-52m-tulsemere-road/msg78057/#msg78057
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Thank you @Hippocrates for all your support!
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Please note that I was asked - quite properly - if I knew of any cases refused on the argument. I did so and then also stated the same adjudicator had changed his mind more recently. It was a Southwark case.
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Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iTPQmT6DGv9dGBiHg66zTF12S6xcUUOp/view).
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;D 2250174944 Website. Tomorrow.
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Appeal filed.
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If you sent what I suggested yes as they have failed to consider. I have 4 at present and would like to add yours to the list. I say Tribunal time. I will PM you my details.
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Dear All,
I have received a response back from Lambeth Council and wanted to get any further advice as to whether this is likely to be successful on appeal.
https://imgur.com/a/9DKaY0R
Any help appreciated
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In the case cited, I said to the Adjudicator that there seems to be very little communication between AI, Barbour Logic and a human being. Still a fair way to go yet.
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Yes I read this - will send your suggested draft. Thank you
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Of course. But it is a threat too. Please see the case cited on the other thread. I seriously advise sending my draft.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11-zn49BD8w6i6FjchByUjkdx69TUFI1o/view
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Just a query isnt the 18th March after the 5th so in essence longer to pay the discounted rate?
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Sorry re typos and report back is what I meant. The date of increase is wrong - should on the 15th day which is 5th. Is also a threat to pay now.
I would use my draft as per this link:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-52m-eastmearn-road-lambeth-5206/msg59011/#msg59011
Actually, this is better:
Dear Lambeth
The contravention did not occur as a recipient of a PCN must not be placed in a position of doubt and confusion as to when or what to pay. Furthermore, a recipient must not be placed in a position which invites them to pay even before they have made repsrenatations as this is wholly wrong and prejudicial.
Yours
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Payment Screen
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Hi Hippocrates - what do you mean regarding 'report' - I understood the point on payment page which I will do in a min
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Yes. Screenshot their payment status page and report as the dates will be wrong most probably. I won a case against them two weeks ago on this.
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Hello
Apologies i am not intending to bump this but wanted to check whether there were any views on whether this was worth pursuing.
Thanks everyone
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Worth contesting or not? If so what would be the grounds?
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Not sure if this means I would be successful or not?
They help, but the advance warning sign on Thurlow Park Road is not mentioned. This sign is against you, I'm afraid
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This is the press notice from August 2024 in relation to this - it sounded like it was a trial (not sure if this is relevant that it is a trial)
https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-08/REf80-press-notice.pdf
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Hi
I did a search on this forum and came across two similar cases. The case below has photos - I can take more current ones to see if the positioning has changed.
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-lambeth-failing-to-complay-with-a-prohibition-on-certain-types-of-vehicles/msg56770/#msg56770
This case below reported on 18/02/25 looks like they were successful in winning at appeal with London Tribunals https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-carson-rd-lambeth/msg58565/#msg58565
- the case numbers are 2240534362 and 2240551408 and the reply from the adjudicator? was identical in both (reviewed together) and stated
"1. The Appellant attended in person. The Authority did not attend and had not been expected to. The Appellant confirmed receipt of the Authority's evidence pack.
2. The Appellant challenges two Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs) for alleged contraventions on 19 and 27 October 2024 at Carson Road. The PCNs were posted on 1 and 8 November respectively.
3. The Appellant submits that the signage is not clear. On both occasions, the Appellant was traveling on Thurlow Park Road and turned left into Carson Road. The Appellant said that she did not see the restriction signs, as they are on the junction of Carson Road, facing directly forwards, and cannot be seen by a driver turning left, due to their position and angle. The Appellant said that the signs are not preventing traffic entering Carson Road and there needs to be warning sign in place.
4. On 26 November, the Appellant provided photographs that she had taken of the approach to Carson Road from Thurlow Park Road. The restriction signs at the entrance to Carson Road are not visible. On 9 December, the Appellant provided moving footage. This shows that the restriction sign on the right hand side of Carson Road has been moved so that it is tilted to face towards oncoming traffic traveling along Thurlow Park Road. The Appellant told me that she passed the location yesterday and someone has tilted the sign even further, so that it can be seen even more clearly than in the footage. The Appellant confirmed that her photographs show the signage as it was on 19 and 27 October.
5. The Authority has provided an image of the signage dated 26 October 2024. It shows the "motor vehicles prohibited" roundel signs are on both sides of the entrance to Carson Road. The signs are close to the junction with Thurlow Park Road and face directly forwards.
6. I find that on 19 and 27 October, the restriction signs would have appeared as they do in the Authority's image of 26 October, and the Appellant's photographs of the location submitted on 26 November. The restriction signs themselves are unambiguous, and located on either side of the junction. The signs appear to face out onto the main road, approximately perpendicular to it. A driver who did not anticipate the presence of such signage and was intending to turn left, would have very little time to see, assimilate and act upon such signage. A driver would be committed to the turn by the time that they saw the signage, if indeed they did see it, which is by no means a certainty based on the images before me. In my view a driver would be unable to reverse out of Carson Road and back into Thurlow Park Road, which is a red route with two lanes of traffic.
7. I find that the signage was not clear or adequate on 19 and 27 October and the contraventions have not been proved. This appeal is therefore allowed."
Not sure if this means I would be successful or not?
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This looks like a fairly new restriction, because last GSV view, July 2024, doesn't show the signs, just a goods vehicle restriction.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tZpycYVGYAbRm2Ls8
Key piece of info we need is whether there is an advance sign on Thurlow Park Road. If not, then you have a good case for an appeal to London Tribunals. Any chance of a photo ?
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Hi All
As the registered keeper of the vehicle, I received a PCN dated 19/02/2025 for a contravention on the 14/02/25.
The PCN is for turning into Carson Road from Thurlow Park Road. This road has recently become prohibited to cars and the only signage is signage which you can see on the PCN, so you have almost turned in before you've seen the signage.
I have loaded the PCN and the video here and would appreciate any feedback on whether I have any basis for challenge. The response deadline for the reduced fee is 17 March 2025.
https://imgur.com/a/1hB2gAe
Thank you