Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Gazaot on February 24, 2025, 03:28:36 pm

Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: Gazaot on January 07, 2026, 07:08:16 pm
Just to update on this.

I’ve had no response from SRA or Gladstone Solicitors after following the previous advice.

Not sure if Gladstone have given up or to expect a letter at some point, but they haven’t responded to my request for details in over two months.

Not sure if I should follow up with a reminded of the previous request or just to leave it.

Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: b789 on November 07, 2025, 06:50:25 pm
Their two emails don’t fix the Protocol breaches and the “clients-only complaints procedure” line is simply their way of saying you can’t use the Legal Ombudsman. That’s broadly right (LoB is for clients), but it doesn’t shield them from (a) SRA scrutiny for conduct, or (b) court sanctions for PAP/PD non-compliance.

As they say they have issued a claim but you've not received it yet, I suggest you email Gladstone's back with the following:

Quote
Subject: Claim details request – Ref [xxx]

Dear Sirs,

Further to your email of [5 Nov 2025] stating that proceedings have been issued, please confirm by return the County Court claim number, the Issue Date, and method of service. I require this to ensure timely Acknowledgment of Service and to avoid any risk of default due to mis-service.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]

Whist you wait of the claim form to arrive, send to the SRA “Report a Solicitor” channel a complaint about Gladstone's. Attach the emails/letters as exhibits.

Quote
Subject: Conduct report — Gladstones Solicitors Ltd (Minster Baywatch Ltd matter) — Ref [their ref]

Dear Sirs,

I report concerns about the conduct of Gladstones Solicitors Ltd in pre-action debt litigation for Minster Baywatch Ltd (parking charge ref [xxx]) involving me as the proposed Defendant.

Summary of concerns
• Refusal to engage with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims / PD-PACP: despite repeated, specific requests, Gladstones refused to provide key pre-action documents central to the dispute (original NtK; exact contractual clause(s) relied upon; landowner authority; transparent breakdown/basis of the £170 and VAT position).
• Premature escalation and attempts to shut down dialogue: statements that they “will not accept any further submissions”, and threats of immediate proceedings while Protocol issues remained unresolved.
• Inaccurate/defective communications: claiming to attach signage when none was attached (later rectified), and quantum inconsistency between the operator’s £155 and Gladstones’ £170 with no explanation.
• Landowner agreement withheld on the basis it is “commercially sensitive” and “only for court”, rather than providing an appropriately redacted version pre-action to enable informed engagement.

Why this may breach the SRA Standards/Principles
The above appears inconsistent with:
• the duty to uphold the proper administration of justice and act with integrity;
• the obligation to co-operate and not take unfair advantage of third parties;
• adherence to court rules/protocols governing pre-action conduct.

I appreciate that the Legal Ombudsman is for clients; I am not a client. This report concerns regulatory conduct, not service.

Chronology (abridged)
[Date]: I sent a Protocol-compliant request identifying the four key documents needed.
[Date(s)]: Gladstones replied with template assertions, refused further submissions, failed to provide the NtK/clauses/authority/breakdown, and initially omitted the promised signage attachment.
[Date]: They indicated they had (or would) issue proceedings notwithstanding unresolved Protocol failures.

Prejudice
Gladstones’ stance obstructed informed pre-action engagement, potentially increasing court time and costs, and risking default where service is uncertain.

Evidence enclosed
A1. My letter/email dated [date] (Protocol request)
A2. Gladstones’ replies dated [dates] (including “will not accept further submissions”)
A3. Later email with signage attachment and threat of issue
A4. Copies showing £155 vs £170 inconsistency (operator vs solicitor)

Requested outcome
Please assess whether the conduct meets the required standards for regulated solicitors engaged in pre-action litigation, and take any action you consider appropriate.

I confirm the information is true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
[Address / email]
Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: Gazaot on November 07, 2025, 05:42:07 pm
Hello

I have had 2 responses from Gladstone solicitors. The first being the response to the complaint, which I will post first and the second came a day later which they have added the missing attachments of the sign from the car park, and a threat that they have issued legal proceedings.

Mr X XXXX
Via Email Only

Our Reference: 1XXXXXXXXXX

5th November 2025

Dear Mr XXXX,

Our Client; Minster Baywatch Ltd

We write further to your correspondence of 23 October 2025, whereby you express you wish to make a complaint.


Please note that our firm’s Complaints Procedure is for the benefits of clients only. As you will be aware, our client in these circumstances is Minster Baywatch Ltd. We do however always wish for individuals to raise any concerns they have with our firm, in order that we can review, address and respond to the same, as applicable.

Unfortunately, the Legal Ombudsman will only accept complaints from clients of this firm, as it is our client to whom we provide a service.

We are sorry to hear that you are considering raising concerns about our firm to our Regulator [the SRA]. However, any individual can raise concerns to the SRA, and we would never dissuade you from doing so. Should the SRA make contact, we will co-operate fully, with any contact/investigation.

Our client’s evidence and position in respect of Parking Charge(s) 71173027 has been put forward to you, and our client does not accept the dispute you have put forward. Therefore, the usual course of action would be, at this time, for our client to consider if they wish to issue proceedings before the Court, if no payment is forthcoming, in order for the Court to determine if the debt is owed.

No discourtesy is intended in not accepting the issues you raise, this is the usual process in such matters.

We hope the above clarifies the position.

Yours sincerely

The Compliance Department

Gladstones Solicitors Limited


I then received this. Signage was attached this time, but again other requests have been ignored.

Dear XXXXX,
 
Further to your email dated 23rd October 2025.
 
Please find the signage for the relevant site attached for your records.
 
As you have failed to make payment in accordance with our letter Before Claim, we have today arranged for legal proceedings to be issued to recover the debt in full. 

Accordingly, we suggest you follow the steps on the claim form upon receipt of the same. 

Without wishing to be discourteous, we confirm we will not accept any further submissions from you.

Kind regards

Charlotte
Legal Assistant

Gladstones Solicitors Limited
Unit B, 1st Floor
210 Cygnet Court
Centre Park
Warrington
WA1 1PP


Understand there is a lot to absorb here, keen to understand next steps. This whole process has been very helpful so far, so thanks for the support.

Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: b789 on October 22, 2025, 04:12:21 pm
You respond with the following (and CC yourself):

Quote
Subject: Formal Complaint – Mishandling of Pre-Action Correspondence (Ref: [their reference])

Dear Sirs,

I refer to your email dated [date of Gladstones’ latest email].

Please treat this as a formal complaint under your firm’s complaints procedure.

Your correspondence fails to address the points raised in my letters of [dates]. You have:
1. Stated that a copy of the signage was attached when no such attachment was included.
2. Refused to provide key information requested under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims and the Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols, including the original Notice to Keeper, the contractual clause(s) relied upon, the landowner authority, and a breakdown of the £170 claimed.
3. Asserted that the landowner agreement will only be disclosed “at the direction of the Court”, contrary to paragraph 6(a) of the Practice Direction, which requires pre-action disclosure of documents essential to understanding each party’s position.
4. Claimed that you will “not accept any further submissions”, which is incompatible with your professional obligations under the SRA Standards and Regulations (Principles 2, 5 and 6) to act with integrity, uphold the proper administration of justice, and maintain public trust.

These actions amount to poor service and procedural non-compliance. Please therefore:
• acknowledge this complaint,
• confirm it will be handled in accordance with your published complaints policy, and
• issue your final written response within the time limit required (no later than eight weeks from today).

If I am not satisfied with your final response, I will escalate the matter to the Legal Ombudsman and reserve the right to refer the conduct issues to the SRA.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name]
[Address / email]
Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: Gazaot on October 22, 2025, 03:59:23 pm
Hi
Had a response from Gladstones, but they don’t seem to be addressing any of the points raised. Also, please note they didn’t attach a copy of the signage in the email like the suggest they had.

They are claiming they will not accept any more submissions.

I’d appreciate some advice on the next steps I should take.

Their email response:-

Further to your email dated 16th October 2025.
As requested, please see a copy of the signage for the relevant land.

As the content of the Landowner Agreement is commercially sensitive, a (redacted) copy of the same will only be released at the direction of the Court. This is usually, but not limited to, 14 days prior to the hearing.

The Amount Due/ Debt includes £70.00 claimed by our Client for the time/resources spent facilitating the recovery of the unpaid parking charge notice(s) pursuant to its ATA's Code of Practice and the Terms and Conditions of the Contract, which was entered into upon the driver of the vehicle entering the Relevant Land.

Payment can be made to the account detailed below, quoting reference ————-
Gladstones Solicitors Ltd
Barclays Bank
Account Number: ———-
Sort Code: 00-00-00
Amount Due: £170.00
As a gesture of goodwill, we have extended the date within which to make payment to the 5th November 2025. In the event you do not make payment, we carry instructions to issue legal proceedings to recover the debt in full. Should it become necessary to issue legal proceedings, we strongly recommend you follow the steps on the claim form upon receipt of the same.
For the avoidance of doubt, we confirm we will not accept any further submissions from you.
Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: b789 on October 14, 2025, 05:16:08 pm
Based on what you’ve received, Gladstones’ “evidence pack” still fails to comply with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims and with the basic disclosure you reasonably requested.

Gap analysis (against the five items)
[indent[1. NtK confirming any PoFA 2012 liability — Not provided. A “demand for payment” is not a PoFA-compliant NtK. You’ve also identified conflicting sums (£155 from Mister Baywatch vs £170 from Gladstones) and missing first-notice issue date.
2. Photograph of the actual sign on the material date — Provided (date-stamped photo). Keep it, but you still need the contractual clause(s) relied upon (see 3).
3. Exact clause(s) relied upon — Not provided.
4. Landowner authority — Not provided by Gladstones. You note Mister Baywatch provided something to POPLA. Gladstones must disclose it now as part of pre-action exchange.
5. Breakdown of the charges; basis (consideration vs damages) and VAT on the £70 add-on — Not provided.[/indent]

You can respond to Gladstone's with the following:

Quote
Subject: Your Ref [ref] – Non-compliant pre-action disclosure

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your email of [date of their email]. I have reviewed the “Evidence Pack”. It does not remedy the deficiencies identified in my letter of [date of your LoC response], nor does it comply with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims or the Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols.

For avoidance of doubt, please provide the following within 30 days so that I can take advice and provide a full Protocol-compliant response:
1. Notice to Keeper (PoFA 2012): A complete copy of the original Notice to Keeper relied upon to pursue the registered keeper, including the date of issue and all pages. Please also confirm expressly whether your client asserts keeper liability under Schedule 4 PoFA and, if so, identify the specific sub-paragraphs said to be complied with.
2. Contractual clause(s) relied upon: The exact wording of the terms and conditions allegedly forming the contract, and clear identification of the specific clause(s) said to have been breached.
3. Landowner authority: The written agreement (unredacted or with minimal justified redactions) between the landowner and your client that is said to confer authority (standing) to issue parking charges and to litigate in the client’s own name. You will be aware this is a key document squarely in issue.
4. Charges breakdown and legal basis: A breakdown of the sum claimed, identifying the principal amount, the legal characterisation of that principal (consideration or damages), and full particulars of any additional sums, including the £70 “debt recovery” add-on. Please state whether VAT is included or applicable to any part of the add-on, and if not, why not.
5. Quantum inconsistency: Please explain the discrepancy between the £155 demanded by Mister Baywatch and the £170 demanded by you, and identify the date and basis for any escalation between those figures.

Pending receipt of the above, your suggestion that I must pay £170 by 17 October 2025 is premature. The Protocol contemplates informed engagement, not payment demands absent key documents. If proceedings are issued without properly addressing these requests, I will apply for a stay under PD-PACP §§15(b)–(c) and for appropriate sanctions (see, inter alia, Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch); Daejan Investments Ltd v Park West Club (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872; Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Ltd & Peter Dann Ltd [2007] EWHC 855).

For the avoidance of doubt, liability is denied. Kindly confirm by return that the matter is placed on hold for 30 days from service of a Protocol-compliant response to this request.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
[Address]
[Email]
Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: Gazaot on October 14, 2025, 02:24:35 pm
Apologies for late response,

Link to email response from Gladstone above

In answer to your question about whether Gladstones have answered the 5 questions

1. A copy of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) that confirms any PoFA 2012 liability

No they have sent me a copy of the demand for payment, with conflicting information such as missing data issue date of first notice, Mister Baywatch claiming £155 in this letter and gladstone claiming £170

2. A copy of the contract (or contracts) you allege exists between your client and the driver, in the form of an actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date, not a generic stock image

They have provided a picture of the sign which is date stamped.

3. The exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract(s) which is (are) relied upon that you allege to have been breached

Not provided

4. The written agreement between your client and the landowner, establishing authority to enforce

Gladstones haven't provided this but Mister Baywatch have this as they already sent it to PoPLA during appeal

5. A breakdown of the charges claimed, identifying whether the principal sum is claimed as consideration or damages, and whether the £70 “debt recovery” fee includes VAT

Not provided


Any support for a response would be appreciated
Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: DWMB2 on October 06, 2025, 08:56:34 pm
Does their response answer all 5 of the questions posed in your previous correspondence to them?
Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: Gazaot on October 06, 2025, 07:31:52 pm
Bumping this to see if anyone has advice on next steps
Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: Gazaot on October 03, 2025, 04:48:39 pm
Hi

Had the following response after emailing Gladstone the suggested letter. Just wondering if I should respond.

Good Morning, 
 
Thank you for your email dated 7th September 2025.
 
Please find attached the Evidence Pack which we trust is self-explanatory.
 
Our Client is therefore satisfied the case against you should proceed unless the debt owing of £170.00 is discharged in full. To ensure no further action is taken, you should make payment on or before 17th October 2025.
 
If you do not make payment, we are instructed to issue legal proceedings to recover the outstanding balance in full. Should it become necessary to issue legal proceedings, we suggest you follow the steps on the claim form upon receipt of the same.
 
Payment can be made to the account detailed as follows: 
 
Gladstones Solicitors Ltd   
Barclays Bank     
Account Number:     
Sort Code:     
 
Please quote the above reference number  when making payment to ensure the payment can be allocated correctly.

Kind Regards
 

https://postimg.cc/MnpqGY0Z

https://postimg.cc/JszMhQ31
Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: b789 on September 07, 2025, 03:55:19 am
You respond to the LoC with the following either by uploading it as a pdf to their portal or by email and CCing yourself:

Quote
Subject: Response to you Letter of Claim Ref: [reference number]

Dear Sirs,

Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon and thus is in complete contravention of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

As a firm of supposed solicitors, one would expect you to be capable of crafting a letter that aligns with paragraphs 3.1(a)–(d), 5.1 and 5.2 of the Protocol, and paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. These provisions do not exist for decoration—they exist to facilitate informed discussion and proportionate resolution. You might wish to reacquaint yourselves with them.

The Civil Procedure Rules 1998, Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols (Part 3), stipulate that prior to proceedings, parties should have exchanged sufficient information to understand each other’s position. Part 6 helpfully clarifies that this includes disclosure of key documents relevant to the issues in dispute.

Your template letter mentions a “contract”, yet fails to provide one. This would appear to undermine the only foundation upon which your client’s claim allegedly rests. It’s difficult to engage in meaningful pre-litigation dialogue when your side declines to furnish the very document it purports to enforce.

I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim that complies with the requirements of para 3.1 (a) of the Pre-Action Protocol, I shall then seek advice and submit a formal response within 30 days, as required by the Protocol. Thus, I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. A copy of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) that confirms any PoFA 2012 liability
2. A copy of the contract (or contracts) you allege exists between your client and the driver, in the form of an actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date, not a generic stock image
3. The exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract(s) which is (are) relied upon that you allege to have been breached
4. The written agreement between your client and the landowner, establishing authority to enforce
5. A breakdown of the charges claimed, identifying whether the principal sum is claimed as consideration or damages, and whether the £70 “debt recovery” fee includes VAT

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name]
Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: Gazaot on September 07, 2025, 12:01:46 am
Update.

After failing with a POPLA appeal, I have now received a letter before claim. I’m looking for advice on the next steps.

I don’t fancy setting up any sort of account with gladstone solicitors portal, unless I have to.

https://imgur.com/a/lwyOt9b

Kind regards
Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: Gazaot on February 26, 2025, 07:36:29 pm
Managed to revisit Teesside park today and took some additional pictures of the parking sign how other bays are marked out. For reference
https://imgur.com/a/8ZlBxHG
Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: b789 on February 25, 2025, 06:10:16 pm
Unknown Driver received the NtK addressed to them however on I appealed on the MB website and claimed to be the driver and gave my details - even though I’m neither the registered keeper nor was I the driver. (It was easier for me to appeal as the driver, unknown driver would have just paid). MB have me as the known driver but not registered keeper, register keeper  is still unknown and appeal rejection from MB correspondence is addressed to me.

So, let me get this... You appealed as the driver in your name although the Keeper was the recipient of the NtK. How exactly did you do that? Unless the Keeper stated that they were not the driver and gave MB your name and address as the driver, it doesn't count. You cannot appeal anything in your name, driver or not, if you are not the person the NtK was addressed to!

The Keeper is NOT "still unknown". The Keeper is known because the NtK was addressed to them in the first place. However, I can only assume that MB simply recorded your name at the same address and rejected the appeal because they realised they had some low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree ready for the picking.

Luckily, there is a PPSCoP fail on the back of the NtK because they have wrongly stated on the back that the PCN can only be appealed within 28 days of the "issue" of the notice. The PPSCoP section 8.1.2(e) states:

"The parking operator must ensure that a notice informs the recipient: that if the recipient appeals within 28 days of receiving the parking charge, the right to pay at the rate applicable when the appeal was made must stand for a further 14 days from the date (subject to 8.1.2d) they receive notification that their appeal has been rejected;"

Something to throw at POPLA.
Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: Gazaot on February 25, 2025, 05:47:27 pm
Hi

Unknown Driver received the NtK addressed to them however on I appealed on the MB website and claimed to be the driver and gave my details - even though I’m neither the registered keeper nor was I the driver. (It was easier for me to appeal as the driver, unknown driver would have just paid). MB have me as the known driver but not registered keeper, register keeper  is still unknown and appeal rejection from MB correspondence is addressed to me.

Hopefully that’s not as clear as mud

Back of letter as discussed https://imgur.com/a/MZT26lU

I don’t have a photo of their signage.

Thanks
Title: Re: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: b789 on February 24, 2025, 04:54:52 pm
Pity you blabbed the drivers identity as the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is definitely not fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA to be able to hold the Keeper liable. However, that ship has sailed and we must deal with it in other ways that will prolong the process.

Please clear up some confusion... Are you the known (to Minster Baywatch [MB]) Registered Keeper (RK) to whom the PCN was addressed? If so, when you say you appealed on behalf of the unknown (to MB) driver, did you do so in your name as the known Keeper or did you simply pretend otherwise be the unknown driver appealing? Or... did you throw the unknown driver under the bus by transferring liability to the driver by giving Minster Baywatch the unknown drivers name and address and passed the NtK to them, thus making the unknown driver to become known? There is a formal way of transferring liability to the unknown driver by the known keeper where a PCN is issued under PoFA.

I am looking for breaches of the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) and the wording on the back may contain breaches that invalidate the Parking Charge Notice (PCN). Please show us the back of the NtK.

Also, can you get a clear phot of one of the terms and conditions signed at the car park? There are possibly some contractual issues we can use agains them.

It would be useful to see exactly what you put in your appeal to MB.

So, please clarify the exact circumstances of where you stand with MB over driver identification.

Title: Minster Baywatch. Teesside Park -parked outside of a bay
Post by: Gazaot on February 24, 2025, 03:28:36 pm
Hi
Looking for some support on this. Letter came through and before I did research on it I immediately appealed. Looking into this was wrong as I have given my name as driver. Scenario is actually different. I appealed on behalf of the actual driver but it wasn’t actually me driving. Looking at doing an appeal to POPLA in which I will make this clear. My feeling are that this is entrapment, there is clearly a benefit to parking like the images attached when you have a baby to get out the back seat, which was claimed on the appeal. However, Minster Baywatch are claiming this is impeding the dropped kerb. There are no clear demarcation that this space needs to be left clear for pedestrians, in-fact it doesn’t follow the standards for pedestrian routes that they have used elsewhere by painting them green. It would be great appreciated if what my next steps and communication to POPLA could be. Thanks
https://imgur.com/a/iXzrEab
https://imgur.com/a/UXMn8fI
https://imgur.com/a/ESQRvh2