Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: wasa1610 on February 18, 2025, 11:44:36 am
-
To say I have grave doubts about Mr Gerald Mohabir's suitability to be an adjudicator is an understatement !
-
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kTqXe-4peN__L3fdT7WW2iqq8YiRGp0c/view).
Quo vadis, Mr Morgan?
Ich habe genug.
-
Thanks @cp8759 ;D
-
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kTqXe-4peN__L3fdT7WW2iqq8YiRGp0c/view).
Quo vadis, Mr Morgan?
-
Refused and review application refused too. 2250132081
I have never seen such a load of bullshit in an adjudication before. Where did this bloke come from ? The adjudication is just the pits !
Quote
"21. Even though that was not the case in the instant scenario, I am of the view that it is the motorist’s responsibility and not unreasonable to inform themselves of local school term times. In absence of knowledge, the motorist should look at the clearly proscribed signage as an indicator and take heed."
This is just utter tosh. So a driver from Birmingham visiting relatives in London is expected to look up all the school term times before he sets off ? Give me strength, oh Lord !
-
Refused and review application refused too. 2250132081
-
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/redbridge-pcn-perrymans-farm-rd-53j-failing-with-a-restriction-on-vehicles-enter/msg62211/#msg62211
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CFVGBi6yYIbMgk8PtB6ySqJxbUrloFKN/view
-
Just won the other won today. 2250006928 will be published tomorrow. Signage. Will call tonight.
-
I will PM you and advise. I will file the appeal for you online.
-
That would be phenomenal, thank you! Do I need any of your details currently to fill in the form they have sent me for the next stage of the appeal? I'm referring to section 3 'Name of Authorised Representative' specifically. Or do I just put my own details down on that for now?
-
If you wish for representation, I am available.
-
Sure, here are both sides of the letter of rejection. We received the letter on 24/02/2025.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Let's see all sides of the Letter of Rejection. Only redact yr name & address.
-
Yep, they have rejected the appeal and sent us a physical letter to fill in should we wish to continue with the appeal. Presumably we just fill this out as normal? Or is there anything specific to note down before we send this off?
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Of course they will reject.
-
This is excellent information, thank you Incandescent and Hippocrates!
I have just logged my appeal on the the council's website using the template message you sent, and attached screenshots of all those pages/checkboxes that needed to be ticked, as well as the signage.
Fingers crossed they get back quickly, but I guess the most likely next step from here will be a Tribunal?
-
Indeed. I won one a few months ago. Here:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-failing-to-comply-with-a-restriction-on-vehicles-entering-a-pedestrian-zone/msg49432/#msg49432
Another pending.
Please screenshot all the pages including the hoops you have to agree by ticking the boxes. And the last page which limits to one representation. Then:
Draft:
Dear Sir or Madam
1. The council’s website limits to one ground of representation and also fetters its discretion by creating many hoops through which the appellant must pass in terms of grounds it will not accept. Please see the screenshots attached.
2. The following case supports the argument of the proscribed sign: Conor Costelloe v London Borough of Merton Case No. 2240078999. The Adjudicator said: But what in my view is rather markedly non-compliant is the legend "School term time" in a separate panel below the grey backed signage.
3. Further, the application for a review of the above case was refused:
Review decision
Reasons for refusal
While I agree with a general proposition that an advisory or advance warning sign does not have to be compliant, the issue in this case is not simply about a non-compliant advance warning sign.
It is a reasonable inference that the advance warning sign was installed because motorists intending to turn left may find it difficult to appreciate the restriction before committing to the turn. The advance warning signage must therefore give a clear warning to render the overall signage adequate.
The use of the phrase "during terms times" is not authorised for the simple reason that it requires motorists to know what the term time are so it is just about non-compliance, it is about a lack of clarity as to when the restriction operates.
If an advance warning sign is needed and it is not clear, the Adjudicator is entitled to conclude the overall signage is inadequate.
The application is refused.
In light of the above, I please cancel the PCN.
Yours faithfully
-
I think you have got the "Get-out-of-Jail Free" card here in the form of that blue sign with the text about school streets and term times. This is because a sign must give the facts of a restriction on the sign; this doesn't. How does a motorist know if you can pass the sign ? When are the term start and finish days ? There is a precedent for this sort of thing with "Event zones", where parking has special restrictions on event days. For these, the council must put on the zone entry signs the date of the next event; putting them on-line on their website is not sufficient.
These blue signs you see are an attempt by councils get get out of their duty to tell you if it is term time or holidays.
The good news is that these signs have already lead to appeals to London Tribunals being won.
-
Hi All,
I have received a PCN from Redbridge council. Pretty annoyed as I'm not sure how I managed to miss the signs, but I was somewhat in a rush as I was attending a GP appointment alongside my Mum and had my two-year old in the car. I entered the road less than 10 minutes before the restriction expired as well, which is unfortunate. I have had to have a look around to find out what the signage says, as it isn't clear from the pictures on the PCN, and the new signage isn't currently on Google Maps. I've attached an image below of what the signage says.
What confuses me is the blue, 'Term-time Only' signage, which doesn't appear on Google Maps so it must be a relatively new addition. I am not quite sure how I'd know when term-time is, and different schools break up at different times. For example, this current week (W/C 17th Feb) is half term for some schools, but I know of other schools that break up earlier/later, so wouldn't this mean the 'Term time Only' wording is quite vague?
I've attached some images below of the PCN letter, as well as the PCN images from the Redbridge council website. Would this be something worth appealing?
Many thanks in advance for anyone who can offer any advice.
[attachment deleted by admin]