Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: D23 on February 14, 2025, 09:24:48 am
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TEC advised they cannot confirm whether the Order for Recovery was actually served, and have now emailed me PE2 and PE3 forms so I can submit a statutory declaration on the basis that the Order for Recovery was not received.
Form PE3 does not include the above as a "tick" option, so you'll need to tick the "PCN not received", and in the reasons box on the PE2 explain that despite your V5C being correct in all details and has been so since <date> you received none of the statutory documents, (PCN, EN, CC and OfR), the bailiff letter being the first time you became aware.
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Update
Spoke to TEC today.
They confirmed the PCN was registered with TEC on 7 October 2025 and that Barking & Dagenham requested authority to enforce on 19 November 2025.
TEC advised they cannot confirm whether the Order for Recovery was actually served, and have now emailed me PE2 and PE3 forms so I can submit a statutory declaration on the basis that the Order for Recovery was not received.
I haven’t submitted the forms yet and ill try get them done today asap!
Update:
I’ve paid CDER £280 to prevent enforcement escalation
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I do hope all this mess gets resolved asap. When it does, contact me please for representation.
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I’ve now emailed Barking & Dagenham asking when (if at all) an Order for Recovery was issued, the address it was sent to, and when the debt was registered with TEC.
I’ve also emailed TEC asking them to confirm whether the PCN was registered and whether an Order for Recovery was authorised/issued.
TEC were closed when I emailed, so I will call them tomorrow to confirm by phone.
For clarity: my address is correct, I haven’t moved, and I did not receive an Enforcement Notice, Notice of Rejection, Charge Certificate or Order for Recovery. The CDER letters are the first indication enforcement had progressed.
Will update once I have responses.
Thanks
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Thanks all for responding — here are the answers to your questions:
✔ Address on the PCN was correct
✔ I have not moved
✔ No post issues that I’m aware of
To confirm clearly — the ONLY documents I received before the CDER enforcement letters were:
1️⃣ The original PCN
2️⃣ The council’s rejection letter to my informal challenge
(Nothing else at all)
I definitely did not receive:
Enforcement Notice
Notice of Rejection of formal reps
Charge Certificate
Order for Recovery
(or any PE2/PE3 paperwork)
So the CDER enforcement letters were the very first indication that the penalty had moved to enforcement.
Happy to contact TEC and Barking & Dagenham as advised — please can you confirm the exact wording I should use when calling TEC?
And as for bailiffs — should I be paying the £280 now to stop any visit while the PE2/PE3 process takes place?
Thanks again everyone — appreciate your help while I try to untangle this mess!
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In order for B & D to instruct bailiffs, they must first register the debt and send you an Order for Recovery, sent to the same address as used for all the previous enforcement documents. I suggest as a matter of urgency you contact B & D to find out when they sent out an OfR to you.
Also contact TEC to find out when the PCN was registered. Haave you not been contacting TEC since the Charge Certificate payment period expired to find out if the PCN was registered or not ?
AS it's a London bus lane offence, you will need to submit PE2 and PE3 forms. To get the bailiffs off your back and avoid the £235 visit fee, we normally advise that you pay them. Paying the bailiffs has no effect on your PE2 and PE3
I should also mention that B & D's admin seems to be in chaos at the moment, and I suspect they have acted unlawfully and not sent you an OfR.
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So the only two letters you've had are the PCN and I guess a charge certificate? Our usual advice is to monitor TEC for the order for recovery to avoid the situation you are now in.
So:
Are the name and address correct on the PCN and charge certificate?
Have you moved or had post problems?
It seems you are missing:
Rejection to first stage challenge
Council enforcement notice
Order for recovery
We advise paying the bailiff at this stage as a visit adds £235. You can try and get this reset.
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Here is a link to the letters received
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CygNC-25X3_KwdtvE_BB-MWPjrldPUuT?usp=drive_link
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Hi all, quick update on my situation:
Since my last post on 17 June 2025, I hadn’t received anything further from Barking & Dagenham or TEC. No Order for Recovery, no PE3/TE9 form — nothing.
However, this week I have suddenly received enforcement letters from CDER Group:
1️⃣ Notice of Enforcement
• Dated 24/11/2025
• Debt: £205
• Compliance fee: £75
• Total: £280
2️⃣ Notice of Enforcement Reminder
• Dated 03/12/2025
• Total still £280
These are the first things I’ve received since that “Outstanding Payment Reminder” back in June.
The enforcement letters have just appeared now with bailiff action threatened.
Please could someone advise what my next step should be? Do I now need to apply to TEC for a statutory declaration (TE9) on the basis that the Enforcement Notice / OfR were not received?
Thanks again for helping me through this — much appreciated.
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Letters like this are close to, or actually are, unlawful. They are not part of the enforcement process nor are they lawful enforcement documents. The letter is also extemely disingenuous, because the Traffic Enforcement Centre *TEC), is not a county court in the normal sense, it is a legal construct, and is part of the decriminalised legal structure originally set up in 1991. They have no court rooms or judges, only court officers who process the PCN registrations, and receive and process Statutory Declarations or Witness Statements soley related to parking and traffic contraventions. SO this letter is, in my view, unlawful intimidation.
The council cannot instruct bailiffs until they have registered the PCN at TEC, andsent you an Order for Recovery, accompanied by the form for submitting a Statutory Declaration. Only after 21 days without either payment or submission of an SD, can they instruct bailiffs
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I am still waiting for a Order for Recovery and PE3 form
Today I have recieved a outstanding payment reminder which states full payment within 7 days of the letter upon checking the date it states the letter was printed on the 23rd of May 2025 but today is 17th June 2025.
Am I still ignoring and waiting for the order for recovery and pe3 will bailifs come before this or not?
Is there a court process to follow ?
Thank appreciate everyone's time
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Then wait for the Order for Recovery and PE3 form and tick the first box and get it signed in front of a witness.
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I did not receive an enforcement notice or notice of rejection
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Did you receive an Enforcement Notice?
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Did you get in touch with @Hippocrates ?
The process is outlined here
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-l-1805/
You are missing a Notice of Rejectiopn (NoR)
You need to go to TfLs site and check the status/history of this PCN.
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I received this letter today but there hasn't been anything before this. I thought I'd have a court letter or something to state my case?? Any ideas what's going on. Since my last post this was the last thing I received
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What will the process be from the enforcement action?
Is it highly likely to succeed?
thanks
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/bus-lane-pcn-enforcement-process
I haven't lost a bus lane case in the last 4 years. It depends what they say in a NOR and whether they turn up or not to answer questions abut the camera etc. Hence my petition below. If I require them to attend, they must or they lose.* Also, their evidence must be crystal clean. In the cases won, this has not been so.
*
https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg51250/#msg51250
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What will the process be from the enforcement action?
Is it highly likely to succeed?
thanks
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Wait for the enforcement notice.
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hi there I have now received a reply from the council and they have disagreed with the appeal please see letter attached.
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perfect will use "proved"
will keep you posted
thanks for your response ;)
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I would use "proved" not "proven". The latter reminds me of making bread. ;D
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alright thanks I will put this forward to them like this:
Parking Appeals Office London Borough of Barking & Dagenham
Subject: Appeal Against Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) [PCN Number: BZ81465898]
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to formally appeal against the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) [BZ81465898] issued to my vehicle (Registration Number: YK61TKU) on 28/01/2025 at 07:24 hrs for an alleged contravention of “34J Being in a Bus Lane” in Longbridge Road (Barking).
I make this representation on the following grounds:
Failure to Specify the Exact Location of the Alleged Contravention: The PCN does not clearly state the precise location of the alleged contravention. Without a specific locus, it is impossible for me to adequately review or challenge the alleged offence, which I believe renders the PCN unenforceable.
Lack of Sufficient Warning Signage: The video evidence provided fails to show any relevant warning signage that my vehicle allegedly passed, as required by law. Adequate signage is a mandatory requirement for enforcing bus lane restrictions, and the absence of visible signage casts doubt on the validity of the alleged contravention.
Given the above issues, I respectfully request that the PCN be cancelled as the council has not sufficiently proven the contravention occurred in a legally enforceable manner.
I look forward to your response and trust that this matter will be resolved fairly.
Yours sincerely,
^^^^^^^^^^^^ Is that good enough ?
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I make this initial submission against the PCN as follows:
1. The PCN does not state the exact locus of the alleged contravention.
2. The video evidence shows no relevant warning signage allegedly passed by the vehicle concerned.
Therefore, in view of the above, please cancel the PCN as you have not proved the alleged contravention.
Yours faithfully
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Please see attachment of the letter
I could argue I just received it as letters doesn't always get posted on time
please advise
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As now requested twice: please the PCN and VRM details. Forget the 14 days matter as they do not even have to consider in this eccentric legislation.
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Hi there was wondering if you had a chance to tell me on what steps to take next as I think i have gone over the 14 days period charge. ??
Please post all sides of the PCN, only redacting yr name & address.
Then we may know if you have passed the discount stage.
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Hi there was wondering if you had a chance to tell me on what steps to take next as I think i have gone over the 14 days period charge. ??
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This one too:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OiTG6O0EUDCINiK3EgP5TrWUemzrPA96/view
I cannot find the PCN.
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Well, as usual, I always start with the simple fact that they have to prove the alleged contravention. I see no upright signs passed in their evidence. Plus the last case I won against them they did not attend (fatal) and they provided the wrong certificate. So, I will draft something later for you. Be prepared for the long game. Please do not admit to anything: they must prove their case.
Case Details
Case reference 2240492648
Appellant Ambereen Mujtaba
Authority London Borough of Barking and Dagenham
VRM EK70VGP
PCN Details
PCN BZ80924907
Contravention date 23 Aug 2024
Contravention time 17:48:00
Contravention location Ripple Road
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Being in a bus lane
Referral date -
Decision Date 10 Dec 2024
Adjudicator Sean Stanton-Dunne
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons
Mr Phillip Morgan has attended the hearing today as the authorised representative of the appellant.
This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of being in a bus lane.
Approval from the Secretary of State for the type of prescribed device used for this bus lane enforcement is a requirement under paragraph 7(2) of Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities Act 1996 (the 1996 Act) in order for the camera evidence to be admissible in these appeal proceedings.
The Council submits a case summary with their evidence for the appeal. That evidence includes a Certificate relied upon by the Council as evidence of type approval of the prescribed device. The Certificate is an unsigned document on blank paper dated 29 March 2022. The document is headed in bold type and capital letters TRANSPORT ACT 2000 and underneath CERTIFICATION OF “APPROVED DEVICES” UNDER ARTICLE 2(b) OF THE BUS LANES (APPROVED DEVICES) (ENGLAND) ORDER 2005.
I considered the same type approval evidence in appeal no. 2220486482 [Mr Davy Georges Duthieuw v London Borough of Ealing]. My decision in that appeal was that the Certificate was not a valid approval of the device for the purposes of the 1996 Act. I refer to the relevant parts of that decision at paragraphs 42-61.
On the evidence before me, there is no valid approval of the device for the purposes of the 1996 Act. It follows that there is no admissible evidence of the appellant's vehicle being in a bus lane and the appeal is allowed.
Please sign my petition.
thanks for the reply I don't mind the long game I will await your reply. I have not replied to them as of yet I will await instructions.
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Well, as usual, I always start with the simple fact that they have to prove the alleged contravention. I see no upright signs passed in their evidence. Plus the last case I won against them they did not attend (fatal) and they provided the wrong certificate. So, I will draft something later for you. Be prepared for the long game. Please do not admit to anything: they must prove their case.
Case Details
Case reference 2240492648
Appellant Ambereen Mujtaba
Authority London Borough of Barking and Dagenham
VRM EK70VGP
PCN Details
PCN BZ80924907
Contravention date 23 Aug 2024
Contravention time 17:48:00
Contravention location Ripple Road
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Being in a bus lane
Referral date -
Decision Date 10 Dec 2024
Adjudicator Sean Stanton-Dunne
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons
Mr Phillip Morgan has attended the hearing today as the authorised representative of the appellant.
This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of being in a bus lane.
Approval from the Secretary of State for the type of prescribed device used for this bus lane enforcement is a requirement under paragraph 7(2) of Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities Act 1996 (the 1996 Act) in order for the camera evidence to be admissible in these appeal proceedings.
The Council submits a case summary with their evidence for the appeal. That evidence includes a Certificate relied upon by the Council as evidence of type approval of the prescribed device. The Certificate is an unsigned document on blank paper dated 29 March 2022. The document is headed in bold type and capital letters TRANSPORT ACT 2000 and underneath CERTIFICATION OF “APPROVED DEVICES” UNDER ARTICLE 2(b) OF THE BUS LANES (APPROVED DEVICES) (ENGLAND) ORDER 2005.
I considered the same type approval evidence in appeal no. 2220486482 [Mr Davy Georges Duthieuw v London Borough of Ealing]. My decision in that appeal was that the Certificate was not a valid approval of the device for the purposes of the 1996 Act. I refer to the relevant parts of that decision at paragraphs 42-61.
On the evidence before me, there is no valid approval of the device for the purposes of the 1996 Act. It follows that there is no admissible evidence of the appellant's vehicle being in a bus lane and the appeal is allowed.
Please sign my petition.
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It doesn’t make sense to drive past the sign and then immediately turn right, as the turn is practically on top of it.
The video though shows a clear contravention way beyond triviality, and undercutting traffic. So it makes sense not to get PCNs - it may be that this time you cut in before you'd been doing out of reach of the camera.
But there may be procedural issues with the PCN and camera.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZgGp3cC.gif)
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Hello all,
I normally used to post on pepipoo but have found this to be the new forum.
I received a PCN that I don’t believe is fair (though, let’s be honest, they never are when you’re the one getting the ticket! 😆). I was hoping someone could take a look and maybe suggest grounds for an appeal.
The only reason I entered the bus lane was to make a left-hand turn. I’ve been using this route for the past two years, always following the same approach, and I’ve never received a ticket before.
Looking at the images, the PCN shows that I entered the bus lane at 07:24:34.083, and by 07:24:35.583—barely a second later—I had already reached the “End of Bus Lane” sign. It doesn’t make sense to drive past the sign and then immediately turn right, as the turn is practically on top of it.
Do you think there’s a chance of winning an appeal based on the fact that the right turn is directly at the end of the bus lane?
Here's a link with all the images and videos: https://imgur.com/a/4L1EqIw
Thanks for taking the time to read.
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