Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: u05428en on February 06, 2025, 03:04:38 pm
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Thanks for all the help - the PCN was cancelled without any contest by MCC
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Yes, "contravention did not occur - inadequate signage"
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I initially made the formal rep. MCC then said they needed my partner (the RK) to confirm that they were happy for me to make the representation on their behalf. My partner confirmed this so the letter is addressed to my partner & also sent to me (the third party).
My partner only confirmed they were happy for MCC to speak to me, so MCC then considered my initial formal rep which they've now rejected - I hope this makes sense
Please let me know what grounds would be best to appeal to an independent adjudicator on - just that the contravention did not occur based on the poor signage? I appreciate it will be my partner's responsibility to make this appeal but it's obviously easier for me to support with this as I was the one to receive the PCN.
Funnily enough, the council has now placed the cones that they deemed unnecessary in the same area to show that the bays are suspended
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Thank you, I've attached my formal representation - just wondering how I could argue the contravention didn't occur when I did pull up into the suspended bay (if only for a matter of minutes), would this be due to the lack of clear signage?
My partner is the registered keeper of the vehicle, so had to make the formal representation on my behalf - the NOR was therefore also sent to me.
?????
ONLY the recipient of the NTO may make formal reps.
If the recipient of the NTO is the registered keeper, then (as you aren't the keeper) they are NOT 'your' reps.
If the recipient is not the RK then the recipient makes reps to the effect that they were not the owner.
As you are not the RK, you have nothing to do with these formalities.
So:
Who was the addressee of the NTO? You or your partner?
Who submitted reps?
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Thank you, I've attached my formal representation - just wondering how I could argue the contravention didn't occur when I did pull up into the suspended bay (if only for a matter of minutes), would this be due to the lack of clear signage?
My partner is the registered keeper of the vehicle, so had to make the formal representation on my behalf - the NOR was therefore also sent to me
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Pl post your formal reps.
Why has the authority apparently copied the NOR to a third party?
IMO, when the time comes, register your appeal:
1. Contravention did not occur;
2. Procedural impropriety.
1. Their photographic evidence does not support their claim that 'there are Yellow Signs displayed informing motorists of the suspension in operation.' is manifestly wrong. Their website, to which the NOR directs you, has two photos, neither of which shows the wording on the sign, in fact it shows they show that the sign was incomplete and damaged.
2. The NOR does not include the mandatory info regsrding the power of the adjudicator to register an appeal beyond the 28-day period. IMO, this is as integral and important as giving the 28-day period...which in any event has been given incorrectly: it's no later than the period of 28-days beginning on, NOT from because 'from' excludes the trigger event, in this case the day of service and has the effect of stating that you have the right to appeal on 'day 29' but you don't.
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No re-offer of the discount now means it is a total no-brainer to take them to adjudication as the penalty remains the same as on their letter, and there are no additional costs.
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Hi there, I made a formal representation to MCC for this PCN which was also rejected - I'm now planning on taking it to an independent adjudicator but have attached a copy of the outcome letter dated today.
If anyone is able to take a look at it & advise further as to how I may address this in the best way, that would be very much appreciated :)
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Yes, IMO focus(ha ha) on the evidence.
There is no photographic evidence that the bay was suspended in prescribed form at the time of the alleged contravention. Taking a neutral stance, which they're obliged to do, the authority cannot be satisfied that the details of the notice - which in any event can be seen to be damaged- conveyed that the parking space in which you were parked was in fact suspended at the time.
The authority are reminded of the Secretary of State's Statutory Guidance(to which they are required by law to 'have regard') as follows:
It is in the interests of the authority and the vehicle owner to resolve any dispute at the earliest possible stage. Authorities should take account of the CEO’s actions in issuing the penalty charge but should always give challenges and representations a fresh and impartial consideration.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-enforcement-of-parking-contraventions/guidance-for-local-authorities-on-enforcing-parking-restrictions#considering-challenges-representations-and-appeals
The CEO had adequate time to support their notes with objective evidence and their failure to do so must cast doubt in the authority's mind (as it would in an adjudicator's) that the signage was compliant and adequate.
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Hi, just wondering if you've had an opportunity to review this letter & the images I've taken? Thank you so much for your help - I'm considering making a formal appeal so just wondered if anyone had any advice on the best course of action.
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As shown, the signage was damaged so wasn't immediately obvious & no cones were in place at all - these were taken on the 5th of Feb (2 days after the PCN) & the 17th of Feb
Not sure if this helps my case but thought I'd add for reference
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Please see below - thank you for your help
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Post the rejection in full hiding only name and address.
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I made an appeal, but it was rejected on the basis that there is no minimum observation period & the CEO has no obligation to ask me to move on; even considering my mitigating circumstances, I was told alternative parking should have been sought.
The letter suggested there was plenty of signage (signs & cones), which wasn't the case at all - no cones whatsoever & only one damaged sign, which I hadn't seen in the dark. Just wondering if it is still worth making a formal appeal on this basis? Unfortunately the only evidence I have of the lack of cones is an image taken 2 days later so I don't have any photos from the same evening.
I do think the signage could have been a lot clearer, but unsure if this is sufficient grounds for a formal appeal and/or consideration by an independent adjudicator.
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The PCN and pic of car at 19:39 but he came back and took a pic of the suspension sign at 19:50 and it's out of focus.
There are only three bays and a parking sign there so probably you could have seen it.
Stopping owing to circumstances beyond your control in an empty bay at that time is a possible way to go. Also that pic of the suspension wouldn't impress an adjudicator.
(https://i.ibb.co/N2fcx9sb/Screenshot-2025-02-06-at-16-32-05.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/zTWWN43P/Screenshot-2025-02-06-at-16-32-29.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/zWXgQPp2/Screenshot-2025-02-06-at-16-33-43.png)
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I've attached below - I'm sure he must've seen me as I was looking at him in the evidence image & I turned my lights on as he walked to the back of the car to alert him that I was in the vehicle.
Is there any possibility of appeal based on the very short observation time?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Post the PCN with no redactions.
They don't have to ask drivers to move on but it's nice when they do. It may be he'd not seen anyone in the car when preparing the PCN.
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I received a PCN a couple of days ago for being pulled up in a suspended bay in Manchester city centre -Contravention 21; Lower Byrom St.
I was having really bad pains due to a medical condition & pulled over to call my mum, but hadn't seen that the bay was suspended. I noticed after a couple of mins a CEO was taking a photo of my car from the front, & began to walk around to the back so I rolled down the window & asked if I could speak to him. He continued to ignore me & I got out of the car then to speak to him & he failed to respond until he printed a ticket & said it was 'too late'. The observation period for the contravention was 19:39-19:39, so all within the same minute.
This caused me immense distress, as I'd tried several times to speak to him & clearly been ignored. I explained to him that I have a chronic neurological condition which is worsened by stress, but he just kept saying there was nothing he could do now as it was an instant ticket, & we ended up in a long conversation as I was quite upset. I was very respectful towards him but he continued to be quite rude & claimed he 'hadn't heard me' & then told my partner that he hadn't actually seen me as it was dark & my head was down - I can see my face looking at him in the PCN evidence photos so this was blatantly false.
I began recording the conversation as he had initially been ignoring me, so he turned his body cam on but proceeded to switch it on & off at points in the conversation. I'm absolutely certain he ignored me completely & essentially tried to lie his way out of it, but the stress of this has affected my wellbeing now significantly.
I told him I want to make a complaint & will be appealing - can anyone advise about this as it's difficult to be confident on what grounds I can appeal. I was quite obviously in the car at the time but he chose not to speak to me or tell me to move on; is this just at his discretion?