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Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: JLA on February 06, 2025, 02:42:04 pm

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: b789 on April 11, 2025, 12:22:39 pm

Of course they have. They are utter morons and incompetent to boot.

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: JLA on April 11, 2025, 11:42:04 am

Just received email from POPLA saying the operator has reviewed my appeal and chosen to cancel the parking charge and had withdrawn my appeal.

Thank you for all the help and advice received.

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: H C Andersen on March 21, 2025, 04:55:24 pm

Let's hope the assessor can follow, assuming it gets that far.

OP, on points of accuracy:
The incorrect wording could mislead the keeper into thinking they have one less day to name the driver or challenge the charge before the operator claims the right to pursue them.

No. The keeper can relieve themselves of liability by naming the driver at any stage before legal proceedings are commenced anyway. And no, appealing has nothing to do with the wording of 9(2)(f), in fact PoFA is virtually silent on matters of appeals. Here's what it says:

9(2)(g)inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;


The point of 9(2)(f) is not just that the creditor may not hold the keeper liable before the prescribed period has elapsed, it's that their Notice to Keeper must inform the keeper by stating this clearly.

Personally, your reference regarding what the incorrect wording could lead to is unnecessary and I'd leave it out.

So far we've skirted the issue of whether there was a breach and if so its particulars. Even Horizon's rejection was silent on this point.

I would add to your appeal that you haven't seen any evidence or reasoning which specifies the breach and therefore have been unable to consider this and make reference in your appeal.

Do you know the substance of the breach? Being on site for the period specified isn't a breach as such. It might be if only 10 minutes was allowed, but not if 3 hours was allowed!

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: JustLoveCars on March 21, 2025, 04:24:52 pm

Quote from: DWMB2 on March 21, 2025, 12:28:10 pm

Were you Jlc on PePiPoo? If so, good to see you back.

Yup...  It's depressing to see very little has changed as the industry still has its nose in the trough...

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: JustLoveCars on March 21, 2025, 04:22:45 pm

Quote from: b789 on March 21, 2025, 04:04:41 pm

Horizon have been desperately trying to amend their NtKs to make them PoFA compliant.

It's not hard.  It's not like they've had 13 years to perfect it...

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: b789 on March 21, 2025, 04:04:41 pm

As long as your dates are correct, send away!

Horizon have been desperately trying to amend their NtKs to make them PoFA compliant. However, despite doing their incompetent best, they have still managed to fail miserably.

However, expect them to try again and adjust their wording, especially after appeals such as the which highlight their incompetence.

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: JLA on March 21, 2025, 12:43:32 pm

Thanks, have corrected date mix up so all good to submit?

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: DWMB2 on March 21, 2025, 12:28:10 pm

Quote from: JLA on March 21, 2025, 06:50:16 am

According to PoFA 9(2)(f), the 28-day period must begin the day after the notice is given:

• Start of 28-day period: Friday 31st January 2025

• End of 28-day period: Thur 27th February 2025

However, Horizon’s NtK incorrectly starts the 28-day period from the second working day after the issue date, implying they begin counting from  30th January 2025 and their liability deadline ends on 26th January 2025. This is 1 day earlier than the correct deadline of Thur 27th January 2025.

You seem to have got your January and February mixed up in this section.

Quote

Wow - since when have Horizon started rejected appeals where it's clearly not PoFA compliant?

It's been a while since I've posted but they always used to accept through gritted teeth.

Were you Jlc on PePiPoo? If so, good to see you back. Horizon changed their boilerplate a little while ago, from not bothering at all with PoFA, to attempting to comply, so they now routinely reject appeals where they have made their failed attempt to comply with PoFA. They still occasionally don't bother to comply (for reasons unknown), and tend to accept appeals in those cases.

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: jfollows on March 21, 2025, 09:57:31 am

Presumably since Horizon only cares about getting money, it’s now worked out that a significant percentage of people whose appeals are rejected simply pay up and don’t go to POPLA. It says something that they’re less clever than those who had already worked this out! My memory from Pepipoo is similar to yours, I agree.

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: JustLoveCars on March 21, 2025, 09:49:56 am

Wow - since when have Horizon started rejected appeals where it's clearly not PoFA compliant?

It's been a while since I've posted but they always used to accept through gritted teeth.  I suspect they are playing the numbers game hoping people won't bother with POPLA.  I guess they'll simply fail to contest...

The irony is that they always tend to meet the 14 day requirement but just don't bother to put the necessary wording on the PCN.

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: JLA on March 21, 2025, 06:50:16 am

Does this look ok to submit to POPLA today?

Thanks.


POPLA Appeal Submission: Horizon Parking Ltd

POPLA Reference Number: 3760535012
Vehicle Registration Number: LF18 ZHR
Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Issue Date: January 28th 2025
Location: Tesco Brent Cross Hendon Way (2131)

To the POPLA Assessor,

I am submitting this appeal against the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued by Horizon Parking Ltd on the grounds that Horizon's Notice to Keeper (NtK) fails to comply with the statutory requirements set out in Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), thereby making the charge unenforceable against me as the registered keeper. Horizon Parking cannot hold the registered keeper liable due to their failure to meet the strict wording and procedural requirements of PoFA.

I will explain in detail below how Horizon's NtK falls short of compliance with PoFA, particularly Paragraph 9
9(2)(f) and why this renders their attempt to transfer liability to the keeper invalid.


1. Failure to Comply with PoFA 9(2)(f) – Incorrect Liability Period

Horizon Parking’s NtK includes the following wording:

“You are advised that if after the period of 28 days from the second working day after the date of this Parking Charge, the amount due has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you. This Parking Charge is given to you under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions on the Schedule for of that Act.”

This wording does not comply with the legal requirements of PoFA. Let me explain why.

According to PoFA 9(2)(f), the NtK MUST state:

“The notice must warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given, the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under this paragraph has not been paid in full, and the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid.”

The key difference is that PoFA requires the 28-day countdown to begin “with the day after that on which the notice is given”, while Horizon’s NtK states that the 28-day countdown begins “from the second working day after the date of this Parking Charge”. This is a fundamental error that makes Horizon’s NtK non-compliant with PoFA.

Let’s calculate the dates correctly.

Important Dates:

• Alleged Contravention Date: Thur 23rd January 2025

• PCN Issue Date: Tues 28th January 2025

Under PoFA, the notice is deemed given on the second working day after the issue date:

• First working day: Wednesday 29th January 2025

• Second working day: Thur 30th January 2025

Therefore, the notice is deemed given on Thur 30th January 2025

According to PoFA 9(2)(f), the 28-day period must begin the day after the notice is given:

• Start of 28-day period: Friday 31st January 2025

• End of 28-day period: Thur 27th February 2025

However, Horizon’s NtK incorrectly starts the 28-day period from the second working day after the issue date, implying they begin counting from  30th January 2025 and their liability deadline ends on 26th January 2025. This is 1 day earlier than the correct deadline of Thur 27th January 2025.

This premature deadline is a clear breach of PoFA. Liability cannot be transferred to the registered keeper when the NtK fails to comply with this mandatory requirement which fails to strictly comply with PoFA 9(2)(f).

The incorrect wording could mislead the keeper into thinking they have one less day to name the driver or challenge the charge before the operator claims the right to pursue them.

2. Horizon Parking’s Misleading Use of PoFA References

Horizon Parking claims in their NtK that they are relying on PoFA to hold the registered keeper liable. However, they fail to comply with the specific wording and all the requirements set out in PoFA. Simply referencing PoFA does not make their notice compliant.

Their statement:

“We have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you”

is misleading and incorrect. They only have the right to recover the charge from the registered keeper if they fully comply with all the conditions of Schedule 4 of PoFA. They have not done so in this case.


3. No Evidence of Who Was Driving

As the registered keeper, I am under no legal obligation to identify the driver to Horizon Parking, an unregulated private company. Horizon cannot assume nor infer that I was the driver. Since their NtK fails to fully comply with all the requirements of PoFA, they cannot transfer liability to me as the keeper. Horizon must provide strict proof of who was driving if they wish to enforce this charge, and they have not done so.

Summary

Horizon Parking’s NtK fails to comply with the following key requirements of PoFA:

• PoFA 9(2)(f): Incorrect liability period.

As a result, Horizon Parking cannot hold the registered keeper liable for this charge. Furthermore, Horizon has not provided any evidence of who was driving the vehicle. Therefore, I respectfully request that POPLA uphold this appeal and cancel the Parking Charge Notice.

Yours faithfully,


Registered Keeper of Vehicle LF18 ZHR

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: b789 on February 26, 2025, 10:19:25 am

I'll repeat the reasoning again:

The Notice to Keeper (NtK) incorrectly states:

“You are advised that if, after the period of 28 days from the second working day after the date of this Parking Charge, the amount due has not been paid in full…”

This phrasing does not align with the statutory requirement in Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of PoFA, which states:

"(f) warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given…"

The key issue here is how the 28-day period is calculated:

PoFA’s Correct Calculation:

- Under PoFA, a Notice to Keeper is deemed given (i.e., legally considered delivered) on the second working day after the date of issue (unless the operator can prove earlier delivery).

The 28-day period should then begin the day after the NtK is deemed given.

The NtK’s Incorrect Calculation:

- The NtK states that the 28-day period starts from the second working day after the date of issue rather than the correct method: from the day after the NtK is deemed given.

This shortens the actual compliance period by one day.

Example Using the Given Dates:

- The NtK is dated 28th January 2025 (Tuesday).

The second working day after that date is Thursday, 30th January 2025 (assuming no bank holidays).

Under PoFA, the 28-day period should begin on Friday, 31st January 2025 and end on Thursday, 27th February 2025.

However, the NtK incorrectly suggests that the 28-day period begins from 30th January 2025, which would make the deadline Wednesday, 26th February 2025 instead of Thursday, 27th February 2025.

Why This Matters

- This misstatement of the deadline means the notice fails to strictly comply with PoFA 9(2)(f).

Because PoFA imposes strict statutory conditions for holding the keeper liable, any deviation from the prescribed wording can render keeper liability unenforceable.

The incorrect wording could mislead the keeper into thinking they have one less day to name the driver or challenge the charge before the operator claims the right to pursue them.

Conclusion
The operator’s miscalculation of the 28-day period results in non-compliance with PoFA 9(2)(f). This invalidates any attempt to transfer liability to the registered keeper under Schedule 4 of PoFA.

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: jfollows on February 26, 2025, 10:02:23 am

The original poster is asking about the PoFA 28 day period here.

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: b789 on February 26, 2025, 10:00:43 am

The POPLA code is actually valid for 33 days from the date of the appeal rejection. They allow 5 days for service of the letter.

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: JLA on February 26, 2025, 09:12:49 am

Hi, was just doing appeal for POPLA and not sure if I'm being stupid but I make the last date for the 28 day period the 27th Feb if I include 31st Jan (the day after deemed given) and Horizon's NtK date for same period 26th Feb counting 30th Jan as day 1 of the 28 day period or have I got it wrong?

Thanks.

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: DWMB2 on February 22, 2025, 01:37:48 pm

Quote

Is it possible for me to edit my first post to remove certain details?

Edit function is time limited to prevent misuse. Send me a direct message with an updated version of what you want the first post to say and I'll edit it for you.

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: JLA on February 22, 2025, 11:25:32 am

Hi, quick update, just got this email from Horizon, appeal rejected as expected, will do POPLA appeal as advised previously.

(https://i.ibb.co/209NrXzX/Screenshot-20250222-111357-Drive.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PsLQyB2B)
pablo neruda poems if you forget me (https://poetandpoem.com/Pablo-Neruda/If-You-Forget-Me)

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: JLA on February 09, 2025, 11:20:38 am

Thank you, understood.

Have submitted appeal to Horizon today, will update when I get a response.

Is it possible for me to edit my first post to remove certain details?

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: b789 on February 07, 2025, 03:09:37 pm

Have a read of PoFA 9(2)(f) and then have a read on the back of the NtK and do the maths.

Compare the wording on the NtK vs PoFA 9(2)(f):

What the NtK states:

"You are advised that if after the period of 28 days from the second working day after the date of this Parking Charge, the amount due has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you."

What PoFA 9(2)(f) actually states:

"The notice must warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(a) the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
(b) the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid."

Under Paragraph 9(6) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA):

“A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been GIVEN on the second working day after the day on which it is posted.”

Now do the maths:

PoFA 9(2)(f) Requirement:

• The 28-day period starts from the day after the notice is given.
• NtK deemed given (delivered): Thursday, 30th January 2025.
• PoFA 28-day period starts: Friday, 31st January 2025.
• PoFA deadline for Keeper liability: Friday, 28th February 2025.

NtK Wording:

The NtK states that the 28-day period starts "from the second working day after the date of this Parking Charge".
• NtK issue date: Tuesday, 28th January 2025.
• Second working day after issue date: Thursday, 30th January 2025.
• NtK-stated 28-day period starts: Thursday, 30th January 2025.
• NtK-stated deadline for Keeper liability: Thursday, 27th February 2025.

So, PoFA 9(2)(f) correct deadline: Friday, 28th February 2025.
Horizons NtK-stated deadline (based on its wording): Thursday, 27th February 2025.

This means that the NtK wording actually shortens the period by one day, making it non-compliant with PoFA. The NtK MUST give the full statutory 28-day period, but its incorrect wording results in an earlier deadline than PoFA allows.

Is that clear?

Use the POPLA appeal we provided in this case for an almost identical Horizon blooper. Just change the details to match your case: https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/overstayed-parking/msg53263/#msg53263

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: JLA on February 07, 2025, 12:55:55 pm

Thank you for your reply, I'm sorry if i sound a bit stupid but how is it non compliant with POFA, I've tried figuring it out from reading other threads on here but I'm quite confused by it all.

Title: Re: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: b789 on February 06, 2025, 03:50:09 pm

Ha! No one pays a penny to the eejits at Horizon. Easy one to deal with... as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote

I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Horizon has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Horizon have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Title: Horizon Parking Charge Overstay Tesco 1am
Post by: JLA on February 06, 2025, 02:42:04 pm

Received this parking charge from Horizon for overstaying at Tesco Brent Cross car park at 1am. The driver pulled into there after coming off of the M1 as they felt really tired and just wanted to rest up for a bit, they really had no idea there were any restrictions on time allowed and didn't notice any signs relating to that. As I said they were really tired and just wanted to take a break from driving and it just seems a bit harsh getting a ticket for stopping for a while in an empty car park at 1am!

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(https://i.ibb.co/Cjsp0Wb/20250206-134726.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z3HWfNX)