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Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: nasmin on February 06, 2025, 11:34:52 am

Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 18, 2025, 05:00:15 pm
Hi All - just an update post my POPLA appeal.

Dear Mrs NL,
The operator has contacted us and told us that they have withdrawn your appeal.
If you have already paid your parking charge, this is the reason your appeal will have been withdrawn. Unfortunately, you cannot pay your parking charge and appeal, which means that POPLA’s involvement in your appeal has ended. You will not be able to request a refund of the amount paid in order to resubmit your appeal to us.
If you have not paid your parking charge, the operator has reviewed your appeal and chosen to cancel the parking charge. As the operator has withdrawn your appeal, POPLA’s involvement has now ended and you do not need to take any further action.
Kind regards
POPLA Team

Thank you for all your help in resolving this all.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 11, 2025, 09:16:32 pm
Thank you for the detailed response
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: b789 on February 11, 2025, 05:25:47 pm
What "fine"?

Do you mean the speculative invoice you received from an unregulated private parking company for a supposed debt you owe due to an alleged breach of contract by the driver?

If you are unsuccessful at POPLA, you get on with your life. You ignore the useless debt collector letters they will send your way because debt collectors are powerless to actually do anything. They are not a party to the contract allegedly breached by the driver. You ignore the debt collector letters. Nothing will happen because of them.

Eventually, (not so) Smart may get the equally incompetent DCB Legal to send you a Letter of Claim (LoC) followed by an actual N1SDT Claim Form from the CNCB. You defend the claim and many months down the line, they will discontinue before they have to pay the hearing fee.

They go all the way in the hope that you are gullible enough to capitulate once they try litigation in the hope you will pay up out of ignorance and fear.

We advise throughout the process.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 11, 2025, 05:08:47 pm
What is likely to happen if I just ignore the fine post popla appeal assuming it doesn’t go my way?
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: b789 on February 11, 2025, 04:28:28 pm
Even if POPLA don't accept your appeal, their decision is not binding on you and has no bearing on anything going forwards. As I already stated, no one who is here receiving advice pays a penny to Smart.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 11, 2025, 03:28:46 pm
Thank you everyone for all your input - have submitted an appeal. Fingers crossed. Will update this thread when I have a response from POPLA - hopefully dismissing the parking charge.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 11, 2025, 03:11:17 pm
Thank you. Can’t evidence it - son was sick and didn’t think we would need to photograph this. Thank you
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: b789 on February 11, 2025, 03:02:21 pm
Forget the ANPR errors argument. However, it would be useful to add a section about the operators failure to consider the mitigation of an emergency/medical situation which is covered in the PPSCoP section 8.4.4 which states that "In considering appeals, parking operators must consider mitigating circumstances in accordance with Annex F."

Can you evidence the "medical issue" you claim caused your delayed departure? If not, then don't bother. Without evidence, every single appeal would have to be accepted just because the appellant said there was a medical issue.

Anyway, overthinking an appeal for a (not so) Smart PCN is a wasted effort.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 10, 2025, 02:19:03 pm
Thank you for the basis for the appeal - one final question - is it worth adding these?

Frustration of Contract – Medical Emergency On the day in question, my son was unwell and was throwing up – there was a delay in exiting the car park as a result of having to ensure his well being, which led to unavoidable delays in my departure from the car park. Under contract law, a contract cannot be enforced when external circumstances (beyond the control of the driver) prevent compliance with its terms. This unforeseen emergency made it impossible for me to comply with the parking restrictions, and as such, the charge is unfair and should be cancelled.

ANPR Inaccuracy and System Errors Smart Parking relies on Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras to determine entry and exit times. However, ANPR technology is prone to errors, including failure to account for grace periods, system time discrepancies, and vehicle misidentifications. Given the issues with the payment system on the day, I challenge the accuracy of Smart Parking’s system and request full ANPR calibration records, maintenance logs, and evidence that the system is regularly checked for errors.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: b789 on February 10, 2025, 01:06:57 pm
That is helpful - thank you. Wasnt suggesting that I use the it wasn't me angle but more a reply to the comment. I will pull a draft together and post it here for comment. Thank you so far...

No one here ever suggested that the recipient of an NtK "lies" about whether they were the driver or not. There simply is no obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company and because the Keeper and the driver are two separate legal entities, all the Keeper has to do is refer to the driver in the third person.

Most low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree inadvertently blab the driver identity by saying silly things like "I did this and that" instead of referring to the driver in the third person such as "The driver is this or that". Any burden of proof is on the operator and they are not allowed to infer or presume that the Keeper must also be the driver. How else do you imagine that a scumbag ex-clamper, unregulated private parking firm can find the identity of the driver?

Here is a suggested appeal to POPLA:

Quote
Grounds for appeal

1. Failure to Comply with the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) – Incorrect Payment Deadline in the Notice to Keeper
2. Requirement for Strict Proof of the Posting Date of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)
3. Incorrect Appeal Deadline Stated on the Notice to Keeper (NtK)
4. Failure to Apply the Mandatory 10-Minute Grace Period (PPSCoP Annex B, Table B1)
5. No evidence of landholder authority



1. Failure to Comply with the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) – Incorrect Payment Deadline in the Notice to Keeper

The Notice to Keeper (NtK) issued by Smart Parking Ltd contains a significant error in how it sets the payment deadline. The NtK states:

"If payment is not received within 28 days of the date this parking charge was issued, a £10 administration charge will be levied and the case may be passed on to a debt recovery agent."

This is non-compliant with Section 8.1.2 of the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP), which states:

"Motorists must be allowed to appeal up to 28 days from the day after they received the Notice."

The PPSCoP further clarifies in Note 2 of Section 8.1.2 that:

"A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose, 'working day' means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales."

It stands to reason that the 28-day deadline for payment must also be calculated from the date of receipt of the NtK, not its issue date. The NtK’s wording conflicts with this requirement and misleads recipients into believing that they have fewer days to pay or appeal than is actually required by the PPSCoP.

On this basis alone, the PCN has been issued incorrectly and must be cancelled.

2. Requirement for Strict Proof of the Posting Date of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)

As already noted in Point 1, Smart Parking's NtK fails to comply with the requirements of the PPSCoP by incorrectly stating that payment must be made within 28 days of the issue date, rather than the receipt date.

I put the operator to provide strict proof that the NtK was posted on the same date that it was "issued." Section 8.1.2 of the PPSCoP makes it clear that:

"Parking operators must retain a record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g., the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system)."

Simply stating that the NtK was "issued", which means "generated", on a specific date is insufficient to demonstrate compliance. Without evidence, such as a dated proof of posting, there is no way to confirm the presumed delivery timeline. If Smart Parking cannot produce such evidence, the deemed receipt date cannot be established, and the NtK must be deemed invalid for failing to meet the requirements of the PPSCoP.

3. Incorrect Appeal Deadline Stated on the Notice to Keeper (NtK)

Another breach of the PPSCoP is the information provided on the back of the NtK, which incorrectly states that the driver has 28 days to appeal from the issue date of the notice.

Section 8.1.2 of the PPSCoP clearly states that motorists must be allowed to appeal up to 28 days from the date of receipt of the notice. As noted in Point 1, receipt is presumed to be two working days after the notice is posted unless the contrary is proven.

By stating an incorrect appeal deadline based on the issue date rather than the receipt date, Smart Parking misleads motorists and fails to adhere to the requirements of the PPSCoP. This misinformation further demonstrates the operator's disregard for compliance and fairness.

This is yet another instance of the operator's failure to follow the PPSCoP, and therefore the PCN must be deemed invalid and cancelled.

4. Failure to Apply the Mandatory 10-Minute Grace Period (PPSCoP Annex B, Table B1)

The permit purchased for parking on the date in question expired at 15:20, and the ANPR system recorded the vehicle exiting at 15:29. This is a 9-minute period after expiry, during which time the vehicle was in motion rather than parked.

According to Annex B, Table B1 of the PPSCoP, a minimum grace period of 10 minutes must be applied after a parking session has expired before enforcement action can be taken. The PPSCoP states:

"The minimum consideration and grace periods listed in Table B.1 must be applied by parking operators."

Since the vehicle exited within this mandatory minimum grace period, no contravention occurred. The PCN has therefore been issued in direct breach of the PPSCoP, making it invalid.

This is yet another example of Smart Parking failing to comply with the PPSCoP, and as a result, the PCN must be cancelled.

5. No evidence of landholder authority
 
Smart Parking, an operator with known history of issuing PCNs without a valid contract flowing from the landowner to do so, is put to strict proof, by means of contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority flowing from the landholder of the "relevant land" to the operator. It is not accepted that the operator has adhered to the landholder's definitions, exemptions, grace period, hours of operation, etc. and any instructions to cancel charges due to complaints. There is no evidence that the freeholder authorises this operator to issue parking charges or what the land enforcement boundary and start/expiry dates are, nor whether this operator has standing to enforce such charges in their own name rather than a bare licence to act as an agent ‘on behalf of’ the landowner.

The operator is also put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice. As this operator does not have proprietary interest in the “relevant land” then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner. The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only). Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules.

A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement.

Conclusion:

In light of the operators many blatant failures to fully comply with the requirements of the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice, as noted above, and doubt that they even have a valid contract to operate at the location, POPLA cannot justify the operator to have issued the PCN correctly and should order the operator to cancel it.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 10, 2025, 10:07:36 am
[Your Name] [Your Address] [City, Postcode] [Email Address] [Date]
POPLA Appeals Team PO Box 1270 Warrington WA4 9RL
Subject: POPLA Appeal – Parking Charge Notice (PCN) SP5006904A
Dear POPLA Adjudicator,
I am appealing Parking Charge Notice (PCN) SP5006904A issued by Smart Parking Ltd on the following grounds:

1.   Failure to Allow a Grace Period BPA's Code of Practice (Clause 13) requires operators to allow a reasonable grace period for motorists to leave after their parking session ends. The total overstay in this case was 09 minutes after the parking expired, which falls well within the accepted grace period of at least 10 minutes, as established by the BPA and the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (DLUHC) in their regulatory guidance.

2.   Lack of Landowner Authority Smart Parking Ltd has not provided clear evidence that they have a valid contract with the landowner granting them the authority to issue and enforce parking charges at this location. As per Section 7 of the BPA Code of Practice, a valid contract must clearly outline Smart Parking’s authority, including evidence that they are permitted to issue PCNs, pursue unpaid charges through enforcement, and take legal action if necessary. I request that Smart Parking provides an unredacted, signed, and dated contract with the landowner proving their authority to operate at this location. If such a contract is not presented, the PCN should be considered invalid.

3.   Frustration of Contract – Medical Emergency On the day in question, my son was unwell and was throwing up – there was a delay in exiting the car park as a result of having to ensure his well being, which led to unavoidable delays in my departure from the car park. Under contract law, a contract cannot be enforced when external circumstances (beyond the control of the driver) prevent compliance with its terms. This unforeseen emergency made it impossible for me to comply with the parking restrictions, and as such, the charge is unfair and should be cancelled.

4.   ANPR Inaccuracy and System Errors Smart Parking relies on Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras to determine entry and exit times. However, ANPR technology is prone to errors, including failure to account for grace periods, system time discrepancies, and vehicle misidentifications. Given the issues with the payment system on the day, I challenge the accuracy of Smart Parking’s system and request full ANPR calibration records, maintenance logs, and evidence that the system is regularly checked for errors.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 07, 2025, 02:16:37 pm
That is helpful - thank you. Wasnt suggesting that I use the it wasn't me angle but more a reply to the comment. I will pull a draft together and post it here for comment. Thank you so far...
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: DWMB2 on February 07, 2025, 09:07:32 am
Quote
The 'I' was just a phrase - and not actually correct.
I'd not try to run with that angle. Trying to argue that when you said "I" what you actually meant was "someone else" just won't come across as credible.

As b789 notes you have other options to challenge this open to you, and in my view it'd be better to focus on those for POPLA.

Quote
highly unlikely that Smart even have a valid contract to operate at the location.
Indeed - I'll be honest it's been a while since I've seen a Smart case go to POPLA but they always used to withdraw when challenged on their contract.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: b789 on February 07, 2025, 08:54:18 am
The fact that the driver has been identified does not detract from the fact that the PCN has been issued in breach of the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) and the fact that is highly unlikely that Smart even have a valid contract to operate at the location.

The advice here is you fight this unfair PCN. Please let us know if you are willing to follow the advice and go all the way with this.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 06, 2025, 07:24:47 pm
That was a school boy error. Are there any examples of appeals that have been made to POPLA which can be used by way of example?

The 'I' was just a phrase - and not actually correct.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: b789 on February 06, 2025, 07:08:37 pm
You blabbed the driver identity by not referring to the driver in the third person. However, it is slightly vague so you should still work at POPLA.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: DWMB2 on February 06, 2025, 07:06:52 pm
You say the driver has not been identified, but your appeal says "I left the car park".

What's done is done. We can advise on a POPLA appeal - key points would seem to be the grace period, a potential frustration of contract (the issue with your son), and landowner authority (which is always worth raising in Smart cases).
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 06, 2025, 06:50:57 pm
https://imgur.com/a/STDJH4H
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 06, 2025, 06:28:15 pm
No the driver identity is not known.
I will reload other images on imgur. Didn’t realise it was only one
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: b789 on February 06, 2025, 02:24:24 pm
Does (not so) Smart know the identity of the driver?
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: DWMB2 on February 06, 2025, 01:52:55 pm
That's the same image you showed us in your opening post, which just shows part of their rejection letter. We need to see all the documents I mentioned further up. The 'Read this first' guide includes step-by-step instructions on embedding images with Imgur - if you're struggling, let me know which one of the steps you're stuck on.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 06, 2025, 01:51:01 pm
https://i.imgur.com/Wev9CAz.jpeg

I cant seem to post the imgur link
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 06, 2025, 01:47:28 pm
Can you not see the notices on the IMGUR file?
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: DWMB2 on February 06, 2025, 01:31:42 pm
...and my other questions?
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 06, 2025, 01:14:40 pm
Hi - yes ‘we’ refers to the notice to keeper.
Title: Re: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: DWMB2 on February 06, 2025, 11:46:00 am
Welcome to FTLA.

To help us provide the best advice, please read the following thread carefully and provide as much of the information it asks for as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/)

It would be useful to see:
We replied
Who is 'we'? Assuming this was a Notice to Keeper, it will have been addressed to one person, and one person's details must be input when submitting an appeal. There is no 'we' in these matters.
Title: Parking Charge @ St John Road (East) B17- 9LD
Post by: nasmin on February 06, 2025, 11:34:52 am
Hi all
I am hoping for some advice as to whether this is worth taking to Popla - the appeals body.

The driver was issued with a parking charge by Smart Parking for overstaying at a car park - the ticket ended at 15.20 and the ticket was issued at 15.29.

We replied to the parking charge as Smart Parking are a member of the BPA who suggest allowing 10 mins grace period for drivers to leave. This was not accepted and the response from smart parking is attached. I have also attached the original parking charge, my response and their most recent response dated 05/02/25

https://i.imgur.com/Wev9CAz.jpeg

If anyone has any advice I would be grateful. Thank you