Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: esperantiste on February 04, 2025, 01:17:01 am

Title: Re: SABA Parking Tickets
Post by: b789 on February 05, 2025, 02:34:46 pm
@DrSatan, thank you for the link to that appeal decision. Whilst it will cause concern to any English, unregulated parking operator to think very carefully about initiating any claim in the Scottish courts, it was slightly alarming to read the appeal judge's ideas about the Keeper being required to identify the driver when there is no legal obligation to do so.

Surely, in Scottish law, there is the same right that a defendant is under no obligation to incriminate themself and the burden of proof lies with the claimant.

Also, the idea that that the parking operator had the right to "assume" that the Keeper must also be the driver is surely an error in law, even in Scotland. To suggest that had the operator sought to confirm with the Keepers insurance company that they were the named driver on the insurance certificate does not prove that the Keeper must therefore also be the driver, even in Scotland. I'm fairly sure that, as in England and Wales, anyone with third party insurance can drive any car with the owners permission.

I have such third party liability cover on my own insurance policy as probably do hundreds of thousands, if not millions of other motorists in the UK. Being named on an insurance certificate is in no way, shape or form, evidence that the Keeper must also have been the driver.

Anyway, I wonder how the decision on costs for the appeal will go.  :o
Title: Re: SABA Parking Tickets
Post by: DrSatan on February 05, 2025, 11:47:12 am
Quote from: b789 on February 04, 2025, 06:47:32 pm
SABA, being registered in England, is highly unlikely to issue proceedings for PCNs issued in Scotland to a Scottish resident due to the following reasons:
For cases under £5,000 which are dealt with under the Simple Procedure, they are not allowed to recover their costs, making it a fruitless exercise for SABA.

That's not quite right (https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/taking-action/simple-procedure/what-happens-in-a-disputed-case-including-expenses/)

As a general rule*, it's:

*sheriffs can depart from this if (for example) one party has behaved unreasonably. Happened recently, although overturned on appeal (https://www.bailii.org/scot/cases/ScotSAC/Civ/2025/2025sacciv2.pdf)
Title: Re: SABA Parking Tickets
Post by: b789 on February 04, 2025, 06:47:32 pm
SABA, being registered in England, is highly unlikely to issue proceedings for PCNs issued in Scotland to a Scottish resident due to the following reasons:

1. Different Legal Systems – Scotland operates under a different legal system from England, requiring SABA to pursue any claim under Scots law, which does not recognise English small claims procedures.

2. No Keeper Liability – The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) does not apply in Scotland, meaning SABA cannot hold the registered keeper liable, making enforcement difficult unless the driver is identified.

3. Jurisdictional Barriers – SABA would need to file a claim in a Scottish Sheriff Court, which requires engaging Scottish solicitors, significantly increasing their costs.

4. High Costs and Low Recovery Rates – Pursuing legal action in Scotland is more expensive and complex, making it financially unviable for a relatively small parking charge.

5. Lack of Precedent – English private parking companies rarely sue in Scotland due to the above hurdles, making enforcement of unpaid PCNs in Scotland extremely uncommon.

So, SABA is unlikely to take legal action for PCNs issued in Scotland to a Scottish resident due to jurisdictional challenges, the lack of keeper liability, and the high costs of litigation under Scots law. For cases under £5,000 which are dealt with under the Simple Procedure, they are not allowed to recover their costs, making it a fruitless exercise for SABA.
Title: Re: SABA Parking Tickets
Post by: esperantiste on February 04, 2025, 06:38:18 pm
 Hi Richard and thanks for your time.
they windscreen Notices and i haven't got them at hand just now.
i will upload one here when i go back to work.
i've tried approaching my manager about the permit and got fobbed off, i will try reaching out to the residence management team and see what they say.
Title: Re: SABA Parking Tickets
Post by: b789 on February 04, 2025, 11:16:36 am
There is no Keeper liability in Scotland, for now. SABA do not know the identity of the driver unless the Keeper blabs it to them. There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company. The Keeper and the driver are separate legal entities.

Are these Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) issued as a windscreen Notice to Driver (NtD) or have you been receiving postal Notice to Keeper (NtK)? What was the date of the first PCN?

Please post a redacted copy of one of the PCNs making sure that all dates and times are left visible.

Given that you are a hospital worker with a disability, you should formally approach the hospital administration, occupational health, or estates/parking department. Explain your situation and request an exemption or special consideration for parking outside the doctors' residence.

As for the existing PCNs, you should be asking the hospital administration to get them cancelled.

Under the Equality Act 2010, service providers (including hospitals) have a duty to make reasonable adjustments for disabled individuals. As the hospital has contracted SABA, they are jointly and severally liable for ensuring compliance with disability laws.
Title: Re: SABA Parking Tickets
Post by: esperantiste on February 04, 2025, 09:15:10 am
Yes in Scotland.
Thank you
Title: Re: SABA Parking Tickets
Post by: RichardW on February 04, 2025, 08:40:59 am
Were the tickets also issued in Scotland?
Title: SABA Parking Tickets
Post by: esperantiste on February 04, 2025, 01:17:01 am
Hi guys, new here and never knew such a great forum existed before.

i'll try and keep this story very short.
i'm disabled and hold a disabled parking badge, i live in Edinburgh but i work permanent nightshift 4 nights in a hospital in another city so i stay in a doctors residence that's a part of the hospital to avoid driving when tired and sleepy. the parking spaces outside the residence are permit holders only. ( only doctors can get a permit ) unfortunately i'm not a doc. due to my disability i'm unable to walk long distances which is where the nearest non permit only parkings are so that's not even an option for me at the best of time nevermind this winter. so everyday i wake up to a new ticket and i can't help but park there.  i have tried displaying the disbaility badge but still got tickets.
i have been ignoring them as i don't need nor want anymore stress in my life but right now i think i have well over 15 parking tickets from them but they still haven't tried to contact me yet. is there anyway i can do about this situation ?