Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Michaelblueboy on January 31, 2025, 01:19:43 pm
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100% correct and I will do that
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I am really pleased to hear that your Out of Time Applications were accepted and that you were able to get a refund from Bristow & Sutor.
However, the culprit here is neither National Highways or Bristow & Sutor. It is the payment processor; Nochex.
I would strongly suggest that you make a post on the Trustpilot website as this could help other motorists who find themselves in the same position.
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UPDATE!!!
Sorry for late response to concluding this. Anyone who followed this will know I took advice off here and paid the fine of £192.50 prior to appealing. I completed paperwork and put up here with mixed advice regarding chances of wining appeal. Anyway I left the paperwork as it was as felt enough info there and good news is I won my appeal and only had to pay £2.50. I had to wait for the refund from Bristol and Sutor who never refunded the amount in time allocated. (Quick to take your money eh). Any way I had to get in touch with the dart again and they sorted and money back in my account today so happy days. Want to thank all on here for you’re support/advice wether I agreed with it or not it was greatly appreciated. If find self in same position I’d advice anyone to appeal. Thank you one n all again, greatly appreciated. 👍👍👍
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The payment period is wrong. They must give you 7 clear days.
Bank Holidays and Sundays are excluded from calculating clear days.
Therefore even if the NoE was delivered by hand the earliest date/time was 23.59 on 9 Jan.
You might want to contact bailiffadviceonline ( https://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/).
Thank you HC.
Clear days do not include the date of issue, the date of receipt or Sundays and bank holidays.
In this particular case, the 31st December is excluded (as that was the date the Notice of Enforcement was issued. The following day was 1st January (which would also be excluded as that was a Bank Holiday. The 2nd January is also excluded as that day was a Sunday.
Therefore; day 1 would be Monday 3rd January.
The 8th January would be calculated as being Day 6.
PS: The date of receipt of the Notice of Enforcement is also not counted as a 'clear day'. I don't know without reading back on the post what date that was.
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The payment period is wrong. They must give you 7 clear days.
Bank Holidays and Sundays are excluded from calculating clear days.
Therefore even if the NoE was delivered by hand the earliest date/time was 23.59 on 9 Jan.
You might want to contact bailiffadviceonline ( https://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/).
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See attached
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Still waiting for the back of the NoE (this contains all-important 'blurb', so we need to see it).
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It’s a motorhome
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Is the vehicle a van or motor caravan?
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+1.
And the rest of the NoE pl.
If your OOT is opposed then TEC will reject IMO. Nothing in your OOT addresses the issue at its heart i.e. why this is out of time. What you're doing is rehearsing your arguments about your situation and why payment wasn't made. This has nothing to do with TEC, these are matters for DART and the adjudicator.
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OK, so you've escaped the 2 x £235 visit fee, good.
However, you're going to have to convince DART not to oppose your OOT Witness Statement, so best to discuss this with bailiffadviceonline who can for a small fee, assist. The fact you used this duff payment site counts for nothing on the OOT WS unless you've squared it with DART. Im sure Sheila at BAOL will know what words to use.
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See attached
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Please see attached paperwork and have paid bailiffs to hopefully avoid further fines
[attachment deleted by admin]
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The receipt you posted is for £7, that doesn't equate to the charge payable which is £2.50 for a car for each crossing.
I suspect that you've been scammed. What was the URL (name) of the website that you used to pay?
What sort of vehicle were you driving?
Please post up photos or scans of the TE7 Out of Time application and the TE9 Witness Statement. Redact your name & address and leave everything else visible.
DART are usually reasonable over a first offence. Let's see the docs.
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Thank you all for the advice and replies. We paid nochex on the 28th and travelled on the 28th. It sounds like we have no chance from what you guys are saying given that nochex are not hold accountable for late payment. The other half used them by mistake in stead of the official site. We should of paid further in advance but having never used before we were a bit naive. Sickening that it’s happened but lesson learnt. Greatly appreciate all your help.👍
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You seem intent on doing this your own way.
May we be let in and see the NoE and your TE forms pl.
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The bailiffs Barlow and sutor have put on hold till 7/2 while I have sent email to transport enforcement centre with completed forms te7 and 9
And you'll put what exactly on those forms? It is extremely important to get them right and so far you are sowing no sign of understanding.
Please comply with what is being asked and show us the bailiff notice.
Find you V5 and check the address carefully.
Alternatively find a way to find out where notices were sent and why; either by asking Dart or by asking TEC.
Please don't attempt to complete the forms without checking back here; you only get one chance to get it right.
and --- we'll likely suggest you pay the bailiff meanwhile.
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@Michaelblueboy
I know it's after the event but...
it does beg the question, why did you not just pay Dart directly? or use a payment outlet after crossing?
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Last June we travelled back from France to North Wales using the Dartford crossing. We paid £7 prior to crossing using Nochex who work on behalf of Dartford crossing.
Our reason for appeal is we paid on the day before crossing and had email confirming this . The fact that Nachex who take payments on behalf of council were late making that payment. Surely I can’t be blamed for that and would of thought if they are collecting payments on behalf of Dartford crossing, then they need to ensure THEY Not me make those payments on time.
Ok, where to start?
When making payment for a Dart Charge crossing this is the official government website.
https://pay-dartford-crossing-fine.service.gov.uk/
I do not believe that Nochex 'work on behalf of Dartford Crossing'. They are merely a 'third party' payment system and unfortunately, there is NO protection if they don't pay Dart. You may wish to read the many complaints on the Trustpilot page for Nochex. As you will see, your complaint is a common one and many people using 'Clean Air Zones' are being fooled into making payment to this company.
Nochex Reviews | Read Customer Service Reviews of www.nochex.com
PS: Dart Charge crossing fees are £2.50 each way (£5 return). You paid £7 which provides Nochex with a 'commission' of £2.
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you paid on the 28th, the day before travel?
you travelled 29th??
your receipt says date of travel 28th so appears you didn't pay for the day of actual travel but the day before
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The bailiffs Barlow and sutor have put on hold till 7/2 while I have sent email to transport enforcement centre with completed forms te7 and 9
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..and I don't care whether you paid anyway.
Will you pl accept that whether you paid or not is immaterial as regards procedure. If you keep on about the non-essentials then you'll miss your payment deadline which we still don't know because you haven't posted the NoE.
Just pay the bailiff then we can all relax and take the procedure forward in a considered manner.
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You might want to redact your email address.
That is from Nochex? DART will not care when you paid a third party, only when they were paid.
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Please see attached photo which was proof of payment received viacemail prior to going over the dart on the day of travellibg
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Thank you for the replies and advice very helpful. Just to say the incident occurred in June 24 but had no correspondence from bailiffs til jan 25 that might be down to them sending info to old address
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+1.
You are on the wrong tack.
You had your chance to argue your case (make representations) when your PCN was delivered...to the wrong address. In all probability you have no way of presenting your case because no-one has to consider it. This is not about the merits or otherwise of your case, it's procedural.
So:
Find your V5C.
Post the NoE. We MUST know the latest date for payment.
PAY THE BAILIFF.
Paying the bailiff limits your financial exposure to its current level. If you leave matters and fail in your TEC application then you're in line for £235 more which more than doubles your debt.
This is procedural at this stage and you need to limit your potential damage.
Paying has NO effect on the likelihood of success with your out-of-time application to TEC. If you succeed you get your money back.
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Thanks for the reply. I hear what your saying but I still don’t get the penalty for the late payment when we paid on the day and had email confirming the payment. The fact there was a delay in the payment was down to the company we used on line. We paid on day had acknowledgement of that payment yet they didn’t pay it until the Monday where we had acknowledgement of it pain on the Friday before . Also can anyone clarify if I have to share the info with bristow and sutor
Yes indeed, but it is plainly obvious that despite your paying, there is an error somewhere such that when you crossed, your crossing was not linked to the payment. The stage you're at currently, means you have to get the process reverted before you can even argue the toss about the payment and the PCN. Sorry, but that is the process, so you have to fit into it, unless you can get DART to accept their error and call off the bailiffs.
Our normal advice here is to pay the bailiffs to freeze the amount owing. Payment does not affect your rights to submit a Witness Statement, (in your case, Out-of-Time), when you can explain the circumstances.
The above assumes you have contacted DART about the matter and got nowhere.
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Thanks for the reply. I hear what your saying but I still don’t get the penalty for the late payment when we paid on the day and had email confirming the payment. The fact there was a delay in the payment was down to the company we used on line. We paid on day had acknowledgement of that payment yet they didn’t pay it until the Monday where we had acknowledgement of it pain on the Friday before . Also can anyone clarify if I have to share the info with bristow and sutor
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Forgot to mention I can’t find my v5 it’s in house somewhere but am still looking. May have old address on not sure. Maybe that’s why I never had any correspondence. Any advice still appreciated thank you
Oh dear, oh dear ! The commonest reason we have on here for bailiffs at your door is failure to update their V5 and a PCN is served to the name and address on it. We've seen a thread on here just this week where the OP told us it is over 3 years out-of-date. Unfortunately, things rarely go well in such situations. TEC pass your Out-of-Time declaration to DART who can and probably will, reject it on the basis that all the enforcement documents were sent to the name and address on the V5. TEC then reject the submission. It is your legal duty as a V5 holder to keep it up-to-date.
Anyway, please post everything you currently have here, especially details of your payment. Also tell us how out-of-date your V5 is. Updates on or around the date of an address change usually mean the Witness Statement is accepted, because DVLA take some time to do the update, although you can do this online. Updating the driver licence address does not update one's V5
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Forgot to mention I can’t find my v5 it’s in house somewhere but am still looking. May have old address on not sure. Maybe that’s why I never had any correspondence. Any advice still appreciated thank you
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Thanks for moving and the replies. When I phoned the traffic enforcement office yesterday they agreed to email me forms Te7 and Te9?to complete. This is my witness statement of why I am appealing (see original post) and and a statement of extension of time. I have completed these and am returning shortly but just wanted some advice around do I need to add any more info on my witness statement. If you look at my post I have explained my reasons for appeal. Also should I send this info Bristow and Sutor as they are demanding I send to them along with lots of other personal information I mentioned in my post. Any help greatly appreciated
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OP, that you haven't mentioned receiving a PCN means your V5C was(and maybe still is) out of date or, much less likely, that this was a hire vehicle and the hire company gave incorrect details for you.
Check your V5C situation and if it's current when it was last updated. I don't know what you mean by 'appeal' because you're long past the stage at which you have a right to make reps. Your correspondence with Dartcharge is essential as is the Notice of Enforcement.
Note that if you go past the latest date for payment stated in the NoE then you are exposed to an additional fee of £235!
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You might want to read https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/dartford-crossing-scam-catching-drivers-2545117
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This is a decriminalised matter so I have moved this post to the Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/) forum.
To help the users there provide you with the best advice, please read the following thread carefully and provide as much of the information it requests as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!**, This section is for council, TFL, Dart/Mersey/Tyne etc. cases (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/)
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Last June we travelled back from France to North Wales using the Dartford crossing. We paid £7 prior to crossing using Nochex who work on behalf of Dartford crossing. We instantly received an invoice via email confirming payment and cost. Fast forward jan 8th 2025 and we receive letter in post from the outlaws Bristol and Sutor demanding payment of £192.50 !!! When I rang them they said it was for late payment even though we paid on the day. I explained I wanted to appeal and was advised to contact transport enforcement which I have done and am now in appeal stage.
Our reason for appeal is we paid on the day before crossing and had email confirming this . The fact that Nachex who take payments on behalf of council were late making that payment. Surely I can’t be blamed for that and would of thought if they are collecting payments on behalf of Dartford crossing, then they need to ensure THEY Not me make those payments on time. To say I’m responsible when I’ve had email confirming payment is unfair. Bristol and Sutor saying I should of had notifications of default prior to letter from them dated 8th Jan 2025. They also want copies of what I am arguing my appeal on and loads of details around my national insurance numbers wether I’m working bank details etc . I don’t feel comfortable given such details as I might win appeal.
Any advice greatly appreciated.