Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: LittleMissStrong on January 27, 2025, 03:29:07 pm

Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: DWMB2 on March 19, 2025, 06:11:44 pm
Good result!

Quote
If I were a betting man, there's every chance MET will realise they've not got much hope and pull out before they have to pay the POPLA fee.
As predicted  ;) thanks for coming back to update us
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on March 19, 2025, 06:04:56 pm
I submitted an appeal on 17th March 25 and got a reply today:

The operator has contacted us and told us that they have withdrawn your appeal.

If you have already paid your parking charge, this is the reason your appeal will have been withdrawn. Unfortunately, you cannot pay your parking charge and appeal, which means that POPLA’s involvement in your appeal has ended. You will not be able to request a refund of the amount paid in order to resubmit your appeal to us.

If you have not paid your parking charge, the operator has reviewed your appeal and chosen to cancel the parking charge. As the operator has withdrawn your appeal, POPLA’s involvement has now ended and you do not need to take any further action.

Kind regards

POPLA Team

Thank you very much to the moderators on this forum for your help with all the letters and very glad I pursued this.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: DWMB2 on March 10, 2025, 10:46:16 am
Leave out the flight stuff. Potentially useful if needed later down the line but could simply serve as a distraction here.

Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: jfollows on March 10, 2025, 10:33:54 am
Mitigation is irrelevant to POPLA, they will decide on the facts of the case and not the excuses, they won’t care about a late flight.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on March 10, 2025, 08:55:19 am
Thank you, I have also just managed to get proof that the flight arrived late, so would it be worth my while submitting that as evidence and also selecting - I was not the driver?
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: DWMB2 on March 10, 2025, 08:37:59 am
Select "Other" for the reason for appeal, you create a PDF which you upload explaining your reasons.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on March 10, 2025, 08:18:26 am
Hello, Im just submitting my appeal on the POPLA site, they ask for the below; do they need evidence that you were not the driver and how do I proof this? I was on a flight that arrived late but am waiting for the airline to send me confirmation of that. If I don't have this, what do I submit?


I was not the driver or the registered keeper of the vehicle at he time of the alleged improper parking. Can you upload additional evidence to support your position?
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: jfollows on February 20, 2025, 11:05:04 am
£27 + VAT unless I’m out if date.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on February 20, 2025, 10:52:36 am
Brilliant, thank you. So MET have to pay a fee to POPLA for every appeal they review?
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: DWMB2 on February 20, 2025, 10:11:35 am
As I noted, the other similar MET case is running fewer arguments than yours, as the OP in that case is the registered keeper of the vehicle, you are not.

The argument I have added in around hirer liability usually has a good success rate. We can't offer guarantees as POPLA assessors are prone to making odd decisions, but I'd say it's one of the stronger arguments.

If I were a betting man, there's every chance MET will realise they've not got much hope and pull out before they have to pay the POPLA fee.

Either way, if the worst happens and the assessor finds against you, this decision is not binding on you.

Quote
Also, should I adjust this [NAME] (Registered Keeper) (Appellant) to (Hirer) instead of Registered Keeper?
Yes you should, well spotted. I'll amend.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on February 20, 2025, 08:59:17 am
Thank you, I will wait for any further comments/suggestions before submitting. Has this appeal successfully worked for others? I see there are no further updates to the post you referenced before, it would be interesting to know how POPLA responded. Also, should I adjust this [NAME] (Registered Keeper) (Appellant) to (Hirer) instead of Registered Keeper?
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: DWMB2 on February 20, 2025, 12:20:33 am
Here's a draft. There's no rush to submit so await any additional comments, always good to have a 2nd pair of eyes. In the interests of not re-inventing the wheel, I've directly re-used most of what b789 wrote, amending it to refer to the hirer in the correct places, and adding a point about the failure to issue a PoFA compliant NtH.

Quote
POPLA Appeal
[NAME] (Hirer) (Appellant)
-Vs-
MET Parking Services Limited (Operator)

Vehicle Registration Mark:[VRM]
POPLA Reference Code: [POPLA REFERENCE]
Parking Charge Notice Number: [PCN REFERENCE]

Case Overview:
I, the hirer (“I”/“the Appellant”) of the above vehicle (VRM: _______), received a parking charge notice via post from MET Parking Services Limited (“the Operator”/"MET"), which purported to be a Notice to Hirer. I appealed to the Operator, who acknowledged and subsequently rejected my appeal, without addressing the points raised. It is my position that as the hirer of the vehicle I have no liability for the parking charge, and that my appeal should therefore be upheld. My appeal is on the following grounds:
    • The Location is Not 'Relevant Land' under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)
    • The Operator has failed to meet the requirements of Paragraph 14 of PoFA
    • Failure to Address Appeal Points
    • Inadequate Evidence of Clear and Prominent Signage
    • No Legal Obligation to Identify the Driver or Assumption of Driver Identity

Grounds for Appeal:
1. The Location is Not 'Relevant Land' under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)
MET do not know the identity of the driver, and are pursuing me as the hirer of the vehicle.The alleged contravention occurred at Southgate Park, which is located within the boundary of Stansted Airport. This boundary is confirmed by a Stansted Airport-issued map provided with this appeal. Stansted Airport is governed by airport byelaws, which constitute statutory control over the land. Paragraph 3(1)(c) of Schedule 4 of PoFA explicitly states that "relevant land" excludes any land that is "subject to statutory control," such as land covered by byelaws. Therefore, Southgate Park is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA.
While the land may be private and MET Parking Services may have been contracted by the landowner’s agents to manage the car park, this does not negate the fact that it is within the airport boundary and subject to byelaws. The existence of byelaws over the land places it under statutory control, as established by law. MET Parking Services’ argument that the land is not covered by byelaws is incorrect and does not override the statutory framework. As a result, MET Parking Services cannot rely on PoFA to transfer liability to the hirer. They can only pursue the driver, whose identity has not been disclosed. As the hirer, I am under no legal obligation to identify the driver, and there can be no hirer liability in this case.
 
2. The Operator has failed to meet the requirements of Paragraph 14 of PoFA
As previously stated, MET do not know the identity of the driver, and are pursuing me as the hirer of the vehicle.
Even if Southgate Park is relevant land (which is denied), MET are still unable to hold me liable as the hirer of the vehicle, as they have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act in order to do so. PoFA sets out the conditions that must be met for the Operator to recover the charges from me as the hirer of the vehicle.
Paragraphs 14 (1) and (2) of PoFA Schedule 4 state that:
(1) If—
(a) the creditor is by virtue of paragraph 13(2) unable to exercise the right to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges mentioned in the notice to keeper, and(b) the conditions mentioned in sub-paragraph (2) below are met, the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer.
(2) The conditions are that—
(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;
(b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed; and
(c)the vehicle was not a stolen vehicle at the beginning of the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate.

As clearly stated in paragraph 14(2)(a), alongside the ‘Notice to Hirer’, the operator must give the hirer a copy of the notice to keeper, as well as the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2). As per 13(2), these documents are:
 
(a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;
(b)a copy of the hire agreement; and
(c) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

Contrary to these requirements, MET failed to provide me with a copy of the Notice to Keeper, as required by 14(2)(a) of PoFA. They also failed to provide me with a copy of any of the documents listed in 13(2) of PoFA.
PoFA makes clear that all these requirements must be met in order for the Operator to be able to recover any unpaid charges from the hirer. As the Operator has failed to meet these conditions, they are unable to recover the unpaid charge from me, the hirer of the vehicle.
 
3. Failure to Address Appeal Points
In my initial appeal to MET Parking Services, I specifically raised the issues of the site being under statutory control and therefore not relevant land under PoFA, and their failure to comply with the other requirements of PoFA to hold me liable as the hirer. Despite this, MET Parking Services failed to address these critical legal arguments in their rejection. Instead, they dismissed the appeal without engaging with the evidence or addressing the legal basis of my argument. This omission suggests their decision to reject my appeal was not based on a proper consideration of the facts or the applicable legal framework.
4. Inadequate Evidence of Clear and Prominent Signage
MET Parking Services has not provided sufficient evidence that the terms and conditions were clearly displayed and visible to motorists. For a driver to have agreed to any contractual terms, the signage must have been legible, prominently positioned, and capable of being read before entering into a contract. Without evidence of the signage’s visibility and clarity at the time of the alleged contravention, the claim is unsubstantiated.
 
5. No Legal Obligation to Identify the Driver or Assumption of Driver Identity
As the hirer of the vehicle, I am not legally obligated to identify the driver. MET Parking Services has provided no evidence to identify the driver at the time of the alleged contravention. Since liability cannot be transferred to the hirer under PoFA due to the site’s statutory control, and MET's failure to comply with the requirements of PoFA, MET Parking Services must pursue the driver—if they can identify them. Without such identification, their claim against the hirer is baseless.
Furthermore, the POPLA assessor must not assume or infer that the hirer was also the driver. There is extensive persuasive case law on this matter. In VCS v Edward H0KF6C9C [2023], HHJ Mark Gargan in his conclusion, stated in paragraph 35.3:
“It is consistent with the appropriate probability analysis whereby simply because somebody is a registered keeper, it does not mean on balance of probability they were driving on this occasion, because one simply cannot tell. For example, there will be companies who are registered keepers of vehicles where many drivers have the use of the vehicle from time to time. There will be individual employers who are the registered keeper but who allow a number of people to drive their vehicles. There may be situations where husband and wife are each registered keepers of their respective vehicles but for some reason drive the other. These are all possibilities which show that it is not appropriate to draw an inference that, on balance of probability, the registered keeper was driving on any given occasion.”

Although this case relates to registered keepers rather than hirers, I contend that the same argument would apply to the hirer of a vehicle. The appellant is explaining this point in detail because some assessors have in the past erroneously allowed MET Parking Services to claim that the Keeper/hirer was likely the driver without any evidence. MET attempts to mislead assessors by relying on a misleading and erroneous note in Annex C of the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice, which states:
 
“Liability It is the driver that is liable for the parking charge.
NOTE: The driver is often the same person as the keeper and/or the hirer. Where a keeper or hirer fails or refuses to provide the name and serviceable address of the driver when requested to, it may be assumed they are the driver, based on that failure or refusal.”

This statement is contrary to the law, as explained in VCS v Edward. The hirer's refusal to identify the driver does not permit any assumption of driver identity. Any such inference would be legally baseless and improper. POPLA assessors must adhere to established legal principles and not be misled by incorrect interpretations provided by parking operators.
 
Conclusion:
Southgate Park’s location within Stansted Airport places it under statutory control and excludes it from being considered relevant land under PoFA. The wording of Paragraph 3(1)(c) of Schedule 4 of PoFA is clear: land subject to statutory control, such as land covered by byelaws, is not relevant land. The official map of the airport boundary provided with this appeal confirms this fact beyond any doubt. Even if the site were relevant land, MET are still unable to hold me liable as the hirer as they have failed to comply with the requirements of PoFA in relation to hirer liability. Additionally, the hirer cannot be assumed to be the driver, as supported by persuasive case law. MET Parking Services cannot hold the hirer liable for the alleged parking charge. Their failure to address these fundamental points in their rejection of my initial appeal further demonstrates the inadequacy of their claim. I therefore request POPLA to uphold this appeal and instruct MET Parking Services to cancel the Parking Charge Notice.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on February 19, 2025, 10:30:01 pm
Thank you that’s very helpful and appreciate you wording a response. Would also be good to know if point 3. is relevant for myself in the POPLA appeal It seems like those letter has not addressed the points I made in my appeal but just sent a generic letter out.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: DWMB2 on February 19, 2025, 07:42:11 pm
I would amend it slightly - this case concerns a lease vehicle where the OP is not the keeper, but instead the hirer.

Whilst POPLA might take some convincing on the 'relevant land' argument, they should be easier to convince on the lack of hirer liability argument, so I'd recommend an approach of 'Not relevant land so no PoFA, but even if it was relevant land, the hirer cannot be liable because...'

I can have a look at some wording for this when I've a bit more time. OP there's no rush to submit anything so hang fire for now.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: b789 on February 19, 2025, 07:24:53 pm
Use the appeal as advised to the other Keeper that has the exact same PCN as you. It is in this post:

MET Parking Services - Southgate Park - Stansted Airport Starbucks/McDonalds - Notice To Keeper (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/re-met-parking-services-southgate-park-stansted-airport-starbucksmcdonalds-notic/msg54712/#msg54712)

You can just read that thread and use the POPLA appeal in exactly the same way. It even has the evidential map. If ou read on in that thread, they have already received evidence pack from MET and the rebuttal to it.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: b789 on February 19, 2025, 07:03:13 pm
So you have an appeal rejection letter from MET with a POPLA code that can be used to submit a secondary appeal. The code will be valid up to Monday 24th March.

I put together a POPLA appeal for some for this exact same location and reason a few days ago. I will look it up and get you to use it. There is no mad rush.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on February 19, 2025, 05:37:49 pm
Since the appeal I made on the 30th Jan 2025, I have received the attached letter today. It seems like a generic letter, please could you advise on the next steps. Thank you.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: b789 on February 03, 2025, 03:20:47 pm
The 40% discount is commonly known as the "mugs discount" and is used to trick the gullible into making a wrong move... and you've provided a classic example.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: DWMB2 on February 03, 2025, 02:42:35 pm
The £60 discount period is only relevant if you're planning on paying. If you are, there's almost no point appealing, as your appeal is very likely to be rejected (but will very likely be accepted by POPLA)
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on February 03, 2025, 02:33:45 pm
Ah, I've only just seen your reply and I had already submitted my appeal as they state that if the appeal is rejected and its with in 14 day of the notice then they the charge of £60 still applies.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: b789 on February 01, 2025, 05:02:24 pm
The operator (MET) must issue the NtH within 21 days of receiving the Hirer’s details from the hire company. The hirer has no direct way of knowing when this period starts unless they obtain this information from the hire/lease company.

If the NtH is missing the required documents (e.g., a copy of the hire/lease agreement, a copy of the original NtK, a copy of the statement from the lease company), then it is already non-compliant with PoFA (Paragraph 14(2)). A delayed appeal strategy (submitting closer to the 28-day appeal deadline) ensures the operator cannot simply reissue a corrected version before that window closes.

In other words, don't rush to submit your initial appeal to MET. You have 28 days from the date the NtH is deemed to have been received which is 2 working days after the issue date. So, the NtH states that it was issued on Friday 17th January, therefore it is deemed to have been received by the Hirer on Tuesday 21st January. So, the appeal deadline is 28 days from this date... Tuesday 18th February.

If you submit the appeal around the 13th or 14th February you'll be good.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: DWMB2 on February 01, 2025, 10:44:32 am
It'd be the first time I'd ever seen them do so. Just appeal as advised and let us know what they come back with.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on February 01, 2025, 08:45:01 am
Thanks for sharing the link for the PoFA, I note it states:
14.2 The conditions are that—

(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

I'm unclear what the relevant period is for the hirer, is that 28 days? and if so, can they realise after my appeal that they haven't sent me the all the documents (those you previously mentioned) and resend them to me?

Thank you
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: b789 on January 31, 2025, 02:48:23 pm
What "fine"? You haven't received any "fine".

When are you gong to click on that this car park is a very famous scam operated by MET Parking. You can choose to follow the advice or ignore.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: DWMB2 on January 31, 2025, 02:47:24 pm
So if someone went in, drove through, didn't park anywhere they are still liable for fine parking charge? Sounds absolutely mental if that is the case.
No. A driver would of course need to be afforded a reasonable period of time to enter the car park, consider the terms on offer, and make an informed choice as to whether they accept them (and then park), or reject them and leave. This is referred to as a 'consideration period' The Code of Practice, to which there's a link in my signature, outlines the minimum consideration periods for various parking set ups. These are a minimum, and there may be times when longer might reasonably be required.

It's often a minimum of 5 minutes.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on January 31, 2025, 02:42:46 pm
It doesn't show the car parked up anywhere (either outside Starbucks or MacDonald's) , just at the entry and exit points, so if its not a paid car park, are you not permitted not enter it and then exit even? So if someone went in, drove through, didn't park anywhere they are still liable for fine? Sounds absolutely mental if that is the case. 
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: b789 on January 31, 2025, 12:27:05 pm
It is not a paid car park. It is a car park controlled by a bunch of ex-clampers to scam naive motorists into paying them for an alleged breach of contract.

I'm unsure what the charge is actually for?

The Notice to Keeper (NtK) tells you what it's for:

(https://i.imgur.com/OSyIGV4.jpeg)

It says quite clearly: "the charge having been incurred for remaining on site for 12 minutes, being longer than the period of parking that had been paid for or without authorisation".
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on January 30, 2025, 07:56:15 pm
I have sent the letter of appeal, I have found the attached pictures on the website. Just an entry to the car park and exit - is this now a paid car park as I'm unsure what the charge is actually for?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: b789 on January 29, 2025, 01:26:09 pm
There are only two websites that give up to date and correct advice on how to deal with parking charges from unregulated private parking companies, this forum and the MSE forum.

I have never seen any useful or correct advice from Consumer Action Group. They're a bit like the CAB, useless when it comes to private parking charges.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: DWMB2 on January 29, 2025, 11:27:25 am
I did wonder if it was them. It's a good forum that provides decent consumer advice, but I've never personally agreed with their approach to private parking charges, for the reasons above. I just don't buy into their theory that using the appeals process to explain why their charge is not legitimate somehow legitimises their process/business model.

It's certainly not the case that POPLA never accept appeals, the success rate isn't all that bad, certainly high enough to be worth the effort (and at any rate, it costs the parking company money to participate). I had one accepted last month for a start  ;D
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on January 29, 2025, 10:42:09 am

@dwmb52 yes totally agree about appealing. On the other forum, consumer action group, it’s advised not to appeal, because MET and POPLA never ever have accepted an appeal and according to them it makes matters worse. Hence the question about appealing. But I will do so.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: DWMB2 on January 28, 2025, 03:20:05 pm
I'm not sure which forums you are referring to, and can't comment on the logic behind their approach, but this forum, its predecessor 'PePiPoo', and the MoneySavingExpert forum generally advise against ignoring charges issued in England and Wales, and have done since 2012.

In my view, the main issue with waiting for a Letter of Claim is that you only give yourself one/two bites of the cherry to get the charge cancelled, with the hassle of going through the motions of a court claim. By engaging at the start, you give yourself far more opportunities:

Aside from the above, generally speaking, I take the view that if you have an argument/defence as to why you don't owe the charge, it is sensible and reasonable to communicate this. Whether the parking company respond to this reasonably is another matter.

Not appealing is unlikely to have any particularly detrimental effect on your case if it gets to court.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on January 28, 2025, 03:05:24 pm
Thank you for that information, very useful to know. Can I also ask why on other forums with the same topic they advise you NOT to appeal and wait till you get a Letter of Claim? Is there any consequence of not appealing? Many thanks
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: b789 on January 27, 2025, 08:26:03 pm
Just to dispel the urban myth that a company can simply send bailiffs to knock on your door... In short: utter "male bovine testicles"!

No bailiff will come to your door for a debt under £600 unless the creditor deems it worth pursuing through county court enforcement. However, even if the debt is over £600, bailiff involvement only happens after a CCJ is issued, and enforcement is transferred to the High Court.

1. County Court Judgment (CCJ):

• A bailiff (enforcement agent) can only get involved after a creditor has obtained a CCJ against you in a county court.

• If the CCJ is under £600, the creditor cannot transfer it to the High Court for enforcement by a High Court Enforcement Officer (HCEO). Instead, enforcement would remain under the county court's jurisdiction.

2. Threshold for High Court Enforcement:

• If a CCJ is over £600 (including fees and interest), the creditor can transfer it to the High Court for enforcement by an HCEO.

• This is a common method because HCEOs tend to be more effective at recovering money.

3. Cost-Benefit Analysis for Creditors:

• For CCJs under £600, creditors will find it uneconomical to pursue enforcement through county court bailiffs, as they are generally slower and less effective than HCEOs.

• As a result, creditors do not opt not to escalate enforcement for small amounts.

4. Private Parking Charges and Bailiffs:

• In the context of private parking charges, no bailiff action can occur unless the parking operator has gone to court, won a case, obtained a CCJ, and you fail to pay the judgment within the stipulated time (usually 30 days).

So, no bailiff will come to your door for a debt under £600 unless the creditor deems it worth pursuing through county court enforcement. However, even if the debt is over £600, bailiff involvement only happens after a CCJ is issued, and enforcement is transferred to the High Court.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: mickR on January 27, 2025, 04:48:07 pm
they can only address the Registered Keeper or the Hirer.
regardless of anything they will not know the identity of the driver unless YOU tell them.. don't.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on January 27, 2025, 04:43:08 pm
Additional question, do the leasing company disclose who else is listed on the drivers list for the car aside from the keeper? If so can MET request that and pursue the additional drivers listed?
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on January 27, 2025, 04:36:02 pm
Hello

Thank you very much for the reply. I attach the back of the charge notice. None of the other documents listed were sent, only the one paged notice I have attached.

They also did not attach any pictures. I was actually on a plane at the time so it clearly was not myself.

I shall send the appeal as per your wording. Can they send bailiffs or a court notice to me if they reject the appeal?


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: b789 on January 27, 2025, 04:27:16 pm
If the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) is in your name as a postal Notice to Hirer (NtH), that indicates that the hire company have transferred liability to you as the Hirer. Did the NtH contain copies of the following documents?

1. a copy of the Notice to Keeper (NtK) that was sent to the hire company;

2. a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;

3. a copy of the hire agreement; and

4. a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

Please understand that MET have no idea of the drivers identity unless you, the Hirer tell them. There is no legal obligation of the Hirer to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company. Only the driver can be liable and MET do not know the drivers identity and they are not allowed to infer or assume that the Hirer must also be the driver.

Besides the fact that the location is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA, you have a "Golden Ticket" as long as the drivers identity is not disclosed. The only person that could disclose the drivers identity is the Hirer, whether they do so inadvertently or otherwise. No using language like "I did this or that". Always refer to the driver in the third person such as "The driver did this or that".

Assuming that MET did not provide copies of the documents mentioned above (they never usually do), then you can appeal, only as the Hirer, with the following:

Quote
Easy one to defeat... as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known Hirer (the recipient of the Notice to Hirer (NtH)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtH is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known Hirer.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. MET has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. MET have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Title: Re: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: DWMB2 on January 27, 2025, 03:31:54 pm
Welcome. Please also share the back of the notice.

Were any other documents enclosed alongside this notice?
Title: MET CCTV PCN - Lease Vehicle - Southgate Park, Stanstead
Post by: LittleMissStrong on January 27, 2025, 03:29:07 pm

I have a leased vehicle from my company and have received the letter below -  I assume this is why it says 'Notice to Hirer'?.
 
This is the first letter I have received, I am not aware of any letters sent to the leasing company.
 
I was not the driver of the car and there is no photographic evidence attached, either to the letter, nor on the very poor website they reference in their letter.
 
They say the parking charge amount is for 15th December 2023 and the letter is dated 17th January 2024, I received it on the 21st January 2024.
 
I attach a copy of the letter.
Please can anyone advise what to do in this situation?

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