Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: yaya01 on January 26, 2025, 02:22:21 pm

Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: DWMB2 on January 31, 2025, 08:12:11 am
You need to start reading and understanding the advice we give. Your car will not be clamped. B789's previous reply explains this.

Please don't update your thread every time you receive a debt collector letter. We only need to know when you receive a Letter of Claim, or a Claim form.
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: yaya01 on January 31, 2025, 03:29:23 am
Hi,

Just quick update, I receive a letter and 2 emails from the Enforcement since my last email.
I am scared only because the car is used for work, school run and etc. i don't want it to be clapped
Please help
Thanks
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: b789 on January 29, 2025, 09:09:34 am
You ignore any letters. What makes you think that any DRA can just "visit"? They love it that most people have no idea of the law and the process and rely on that ignorance and fear to make you pay up.

Here is a short lesson on why no one will "visit" and why:

Quote
1. County Court Judgment (CCJ):

• A bailiff (enforcement agent) can only get involved after a creditor has obtained a CCJ against you in a county court.

• If the CCJ is under £600, the creditor cannot transfer it to the High Court for enforcement by a High Court Enforcement Officer (HCEO). Instead, enforcement would remain under the county court's jurisdiction.

2. Threshold for High Court Enforcement:

• If a CCJ is over £600 (including fees and interest), the creditor can transfer it to the High Court for enforcement by an HCEO. This is a common method because HCEOs tend to be more effective at recovering money.

3. Cost-Benefit Analysis for Creditors:

• For CCJs under £600, creditors may find it uneconomical to pursue enforcement through county court bailiffs, as they are generally slower and less effective than HCEOs.

• As a result, creditors may opt not to escalate enforcement for small amounts.

4. Private Parking Charges and Bailiffs:

• In the context of private parking charges, no bailiff action can occur unless the parking operator has gone to court, won a case, obtained a CCJ, and you fail to pay the judgment within the stipulated time (usually 30 days).

So, no bailiff will come to your door for a debt under £600 unless the creditor deems it worth pursuing through county court enforcement. However, even if the debt is over £600, bailiff involvement only happens after a CCJ is issued, and enforcement is transferred to the High Court.
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: DWMB2 on January 28, 2025, 09:21:07 pm
Quote from: b789 on January 27, 2025, 08:30:17 pm
Just ignore everything you receive unless it is a Letter of Claim (LoC) or an actual N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC.  Ignore all debt collector or Debt Recovery Agent (DRA) letters. They are powerless to do anything except scare the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up to of ignorance and fear. Ise their letters as kindling. We do not need to know about them.
Re-read the above. You won't be getting 'a visit'.
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: yaya01 on January 28, 2025, 09:13:38 pm
Hi,

What do I do if I receive another letter from this enforcement agency or a visit.

I thank w
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: b789 on January 27, 2025, 08:30:17 pm
Just ignore everything you receive unless it is a Letter of Claim (LoC) or an actual N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC.  Ignore all debt collector or Debt Recovery Agent (DRA) letters. They are powerless to do anything except scare the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up to of ignorance and fear. Ise their letters as kindling. We do not need to know about them.

Come back if/when you receive an LoC or an actual claim.
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: yaya01 on January 27, 2025, 07:33:58 pm
Hi,

Please see the back of the Notice.

Unfortunately, I can't find the original letter for the appeal as it was done online.
I didn't confirm time the car was parked apart from admitting that i was the driver and not the keeper.
When i logged on to their website this was to pay and not to check on any pictures.
Regards

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Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: mickR on January 27, 2025, 04:50:47 pm
like when they imitate Paul Daniels and produce an earlier photo out of their unscrupulous hat
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: DWMB2 on January 27, 2025, 02:54:03 pm
I haven't claimed the contrary. Anticipating the other side's arguments is nevertheless sensible.
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: b789 on January 27, 2025, 02:51:34 pm
Still doesn't alter the fact that the invoice is invalid.
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: DWMB2 on January 27, 2025, 02:43:50 pm
When you go onto the NPM website and look at all the photographs available, what time span do they cover? (Just pre-empting any counter arguments the claimant may seek to deploy)
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: b789 on January 27, 2025, 02:33:23 pm
The PCN was issued incorrectly as no consideration period was allowed for. The driver can contest this all the way to a county court hearing in the small-claims track. There was no contract breached by the driver.

Annex B of the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) (https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW%20Redesigned%20Documents/sectorsingleCodeofPractice.pdf) states that premises (irrespective of the size) that is controlled by permit, the minimum consideration period for the driver to read and understand the terms and conditions of the car park is 5 minutes. That PCN shows that it was issued after only 3 minutes, thereby invalidating the PCN.

(https://i.imgur.com/fvF8Iia.jpeg)

Without knowing exactly what was said in any appeals, if the driver (now known to NPM) did not admit to how long they were actually parked at the location, they have a valid defence should this ever go as far as a claim in the small-claims track of the county court.

Did the Keeper/driver discuss how long they were actually parked at the location?
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: mickR on January 27, 2025, 11:21:44 am
and the back????

and the answer to my question re the resident and permit???
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: yaya01 on January 27, 2025, 10:49:58 am
Hi,

This is the notice to keeper that i received then sent on my appeal.

Thanks

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: mickR on January 27, 2025, 10:26:10 am
@yaya01

you were asked to post the NTK (notice to keeper)
where is it?

you were helping a resident move? did they not mention permits etc??
the appeal letter says you didn't have an E permit. (not sure where you got the "car not electrical" idea from)
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: b789 on January 27, 2025, 09:20:20 am
Please get it into your head that just because they have picture of the driver, how on earth do you think they know who that is? Please go and take a photo of some random person in the street and then identify that person based on the photo only.

Do you imagine that there is some magical unicorn database that they shove the picture into and out spurts the identity of the person in the photo? Of course there isn't and they are no the police or any sort of authority that can perform forensic examination to try and identify the person in the photo. They're simply a bunch of ex-clamper thugs who are out to extort money from the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree.

The only person they knew the identity of the driver was the Keeper. The drivers identity was never known until you gave it to them on a plate. The driver and the Keeper are two separate legal entities and there is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company. They are not allowed to infer or assume that the Keeper must also be the driver. The burden of proof is on them to show who the driver was, and they had no proof until you gave it to the.
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: yaya01 on January 26, 2025, 08:38:53 pm
Hi,

I did tell them who the driver was as PCN they sent had picture of the car at the time this occurred and showed every thing.

On my appeal I said i didn't know that this was private land as i was helping a resident of the building who was moving out but they over turned it saying that i was liable as no permission was granted and or the car was not electrical etc
The payment I made was only for the PCN charge of £100 via enforcement as my reference number is not working on NPM's website.
Yes, i do not wish for this to be hanging on me and having to deal with these officers.
Please help


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Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: b789 on January 26, 2025, 03:43:57 pm
SNAFU. How low does the fruit hang on the gullible tree? "Enforcement", "Officer", they really have managed to overwhelm you with their scam.

What exactly did you put in your appeal? Did you blab that you, the Keeper, was also the driver? Have you admitted liability for the alleged debt because you paid the speculative invoice that you imagined was a "fine" from an unregulated private parking company?

Never, ever, ever, EVER, communicate with a useless and powerless debt collector, especially one as bottom-dwelling as ZZPS and their sister company GCTT. No debt collector or Debt Recovery Agent (DRA) is a party to the contract that the driver allegedly breached with NPM. Use their letters as toilet paper. Better still, just ignore them.

Your Parking Charge Notice (PCN) that was issued as a postal Notice to Keeper (NtK) is nothing more than a speculative invoice. Would you just say any speculative invoice silly because you are offered a 40% discount? Do you beige that the PCN was issued fairly and the driver owes NPM some money because they claim the driver breached a contractual term on a sign?

In order to assist you and try and undo some of the mistakes already made, follow the advice given above and show us the NtK and what exactly you put in your appeal. Also confirm whether you made an actual payment that was accepted and debited from your account and exactly who was this payment made out to.
Title: Re: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: DWMB2 on January 26, 2025, 02:26:28 pm
Welcome to FTLA.

To help us provide the best advice, please read the following thread carefully and provide as much of the information it asks for as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/)
Title: Parked on land monitored by NPM
Post by: yaya01 on January 26, 2025, 02:22:21 pm
I got a parking ticked from NPM for parking on private land which I appealed but was over turned. I was given until 21/01/25 to pay the ticket on discounted rate.
I logged in on their website at around 21h00 on 21/01/25 and using payment phone but the reference number for the PCN was not recognised. I immediately emailed them to query it of course I knew the office would be closed, the email was also to confirm my action that i didn't ignore the ticket. I got a reply from them the next day after passing Data protection checks saying that it was sent to Enforcement. I replied back explaining to this operator the problem I had on their website but now he refused to answer to any of my messages.
I got in touch with the Enforcement and they confirmed that my case was sent to them on 21/02/25 but the person could not tell me the time.
This person also told me that they started to add fees.
i paid only the charge amount on 24/01/25 after speaking to the enforcement office zzps but not the fee.
I received a letter from this enforcement zzps dated 21/01/25 regarding this with added fee of £70.
Can anyone help I am unsure what to do as this NPM officer that I was dealing with via email his signature said senior officer.
It would appears as though the case was sent to the enforcement agency on the due date probably by the time their office closed as the reference was not recognised at 21h00 when I tried to use.
Sorry, I know it is long , this is the best way that I can explain it.
thanking you in advance