Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: bobisnotmyname on January 23, 2025, 03:42:42 pm

Title: Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park, Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
Post by: b789 on January 28, 2025, 03:43:09 pm
Personally, I'd give them hell if they have not addressed all the points in the formal complaint. You can raise it to their ATA and also the DVLA if necessary.
Title: Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park, Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
Post by: DWMB2 on January 28, 2025, 02:01:49 pm
"Gesture of goodwill" is parking company speak for "This one will be trouble, let's focus on easier targets". Good result.

Yep, if you're up for being a pain, follow up on the other points. If you've threatened to escalate to other parties, do so if they don't address your points.
Title: Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park, Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
Post by: bobisnotmyname on January 28, 2025, 01:13:31 pm
Just received from OPC:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Private Parking Charge:     XXXXX
Issue date:                 21/11/2024
Vehicle registration:       XXXXXX
Location:                   St Johns Retail Park, Wolverhampton
Reason for issue:           overstayed the maximum time allowed by the terms & condition

Dear Mr XXXXX,

We write further to your email dated 24/01/2025, the contents of which have been noted.

After reviewing your appeal, although all requirements have been met by OPC, we have, as a gesture of good will, cancelled PPC XXXXXX, on this occasion.

Please be advised, parking at St Johns Retail Park, Wolverhampton states on the signage throughout the retail park there is a maximum stay of 2 hours.  There is also a telephone number, on the signage that can be used at the time, in any unforeseen circumstances, causing an overstay.  This will prevent any further private parking charges being issued to you.

 
Yours sincerely,
Appeals Department
OPC
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you very much for your help, I assume to make them more work, I should reply thanking them for their kind allowance but also ask if they are going to answer my other points of complaint, update their website privacy policy etc etc.

I'm happy to expend some effort to help them become compliant / be annoying

Thank you again @b789!
Title: Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park, Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
Post by: bobisnotmyname on January 24, 2025, 03:30:34 pm
Thank you very much for such a thorough letter, I've sent it in with my details added and will update back on the outcome.
Title: Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park, Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
Post by: b789 on January 24, 2025, 02:49:59 pm
Quote
Observices Parking Consultancy Ltd
PO Box 956
St Albans
AL1 9HJ

By email: enquiries@observices.co.uk

[Date]

Subject: Formal Complaint Regarding Mishandling of Appeal for PCN [INSERT PCN NUMBER]

To the Complaints Department,

I am writing as the Registered Keeper to submit a formal complaint regarding the handling of my appeal for Private Parking Charge Notice (PCN) [INSERT PCN NUMBER]. Your rejection of my appeal is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) and the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).

Your failure to recognise that my appeal was submitted within the prescribed 28-day timeframe, combined with your refusal to issue a POPLA code, demonstrates a breach of the regulations you are required to follow as a BPA member. I will outline your specific failings below.

Assessment of Your Procedural Errors

There is no mention in the NtK of an appeal deadline. The BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) states the following in section 8.1.2:

8.1.2.

The parking operator must ensure that a notice informs the recipient:

a) of the contact details of the parking operator (e.g., telephone number, email address, website) and of those to which appeals should be made (where different);

b) the parking charge was incurred on private land;

c) of the process by which the recipient may appeal against the parking charge;

d) that in the event of the recipient appealing the parking charge and that appeal being rejected, they have a further right of appeal to the Appeals Service but that the discounted rate no longer applies should they appeal to an Appeals service;

e) that if the recipient appeals within 28 days of receiving the parking charge, the right to pay at the rate applicable when the appeal was made must stand for a further 14 days from the date (subject to 8.1.2d) they receive notification that their appeal has been rejected.

I don't see any of that as having been complied with.

As for the deadlines for submitting an appeal, the PPSCoP goes on to state:

"NOTE 1: Where the 14 days to pay was at the reduced rate a further 14 days should be offered to make payment at the full rate.

NOTE 2: A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose, “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales. Therefore, parking operators must retain a record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g., the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system.)


f) of the operator’s complaints procedure in accordance with Clause 11; and

g) if payment is made, they cannot appeal."

It does not take much intellectual effort to work out that if the alleged contravention took place on Thursday 14th November 2024 and the PCN was "issued" on Thursday 21st November 2024, then it was deemed "given" (legal jargon meaning "received") on Monday 25th November 2024. Sub paragraph (e) in section 8.1.2 of the PPSCoP clearly states that:

"...that if the recipient appeals within 28 days of receiving the parking charge, the right to pay at the rate applicable when the appeal was made must stand for a further 14 days from the date (subject to 8.1.2d) they receive notification that their appeal has been rejected".

In order not to tax your minds too much, what that means is that the Keeper has 28 days from the date the PCN is "received", which is the same as "given". Therefore, 28 days from the date of "receipt" was Monday 23rd December 2024.

This response from an obviously intellectually challenged employee handling appeals at your company wrote:

"Please be advised, the issue date of PPC 572323 was the 21/11/2024. Your appeal was sent on 19/12/2024, therefore as previously stated the appeal was received out of the required ‘within 28 days from issue date’ to appeal. Not from when the Private Parking Charge was received."

This is blatantly wrong and highlights the gross incompetent or deliberately mendacious behaviour of your employee.

Transparency and Compliance Failings

1. Failure to Display Registered Address

Your website does not display your registered address, and your Privacy Policy includes a blank postal address. This is a breach of:

• The Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008, which require companies to display their registered name and office address on websites and correspondence.

• Section 8.1.2(a) of the PPSCoP, which requires operators to provide clear contact details.

2. Non-Compliant Privacy Policy (DPO Contact Details)

Your Privacy Policy fails to provide a postal address for your Data Protection Officer (DPO), instead listing only an email address and phone number. This violates:

• Articles 13 and 14 of the UK General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), which require full DPO contact details, including a postal address.

These omissions undermine transparency and accountability, making it harder for individuals to contact you regarding appeals or data protection concerns.

Resolution Required

I demand that you:

• Cancel the PCN immediately, acknowledging the appeal was submitted on time or

• Provide a POPLA code if you refuse to cancel the PCN, in line with BPA requirements.

• Immediate publication of your registered address and correction of your Privacy Policy to include a proper postal address for your DPO.

If I do not receive a satisfactory response within 14 days, I will escalate this matter to the British Parking Association (BPA), Companies House, and the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) as appropriate.

Sincerely,

[Your Full Name]
[Your Address]
[Your Email Address]

Keep this screenshot of their Privacy Policy t0 use in your complaint to the ICO:

(https://i.imgur.com/ZBFvULe.jpeg)
Title: Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park, Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
Post by: bobisnotmyname on January 23, 2025, 05:46:03 pm
Wow, that is an amazing amount of useful infomation, sorry for uploading in Google Drive rather then imager.

A complaint template would be fantastic thanks, it will be a lot more impressive that what I could cobble together from what you have provided

Many thanks again
Title: Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park, Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
Post by: b789 on January 23, 2025, 05:37:33 pm
Just posting this here as I refuse to keep downloaded docs from others. I just wish people would use Imgur (http://imgur.com) to host their images.

(https://i.imgur.com/2EMLboT.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/vt1FwiD.jpeg)

I don't see any mention in the NtK of an appeal deadline. The BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) states the following in section 8.1.2:

Quote
8.1.2.
The parking operator must ensure that a notice informs the recipient:
a) of the contact details of the parking operator (e.g. telephone number, email address, website) and of those to which appeals should be made (where different);
b) the parking charge was incurred on private land;
c) of the process by which the recipient may appeal against the parking charge;
d) that in the event of the recipient appealing the parking charge and that appeal being rejected, they have a further right of appeal to the Appeals Service but that the discounted rate no longer applies should they appeal to an Appeals service;
e) that if the recipient appeals within 28 days of receiving the parking charge, the right to pay at the rate applicable when the appeal was made must stand for a further 14 days from the date (subject to 8.1.2d) they receive
notification that their appeal has been rejected;

I don't see that as having been complied with.

As for the deadlines for submitting an appeal, the PPSCoP goes on to state:

Quote
NOTE 1: Where the 14 days to pay was at the reduced rate a further 14 days should be offered to make payment at the full rate.
NOTE 2: A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose, “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales. Therefore, parking operators must retain a record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g. the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system.)
f) of the operator’s complaints procedure in accordance with Clause 11; and
g) if payment is made, they cannot appeal.

SO, if the alleged contravention took place on Thursday 14th November 2024 and the PCN was "issued" on Tuesday 21st November 2024, then it was deemed given on Monday 25th November 2024. Point 'e' above states quite clearly that "...that if the recipient appeals within 28 days of receiving the parking charge, the right to pay at the rate applicable when the appeal was made must stand for a further 14 days from the date (subject to 8.1.2d) they receive notification that their appeal has been rejected".

So, the Keeper has 28 days from the date the PCN is "received" which is the same as "given". 28 days from the date of receipt (deemed, not actual) was Monday 23rd December 2024.

This response from the intellectually challenged employees at this rogue operator said:

Quote
"Please be advised, the issue date of PPC 572323 was the 21/11/2024.  Your appeal was sent on 19/12/2024, therefore as previously stated the appeal was received out of the required ‘within 28 days from issue date’ to appeal.  Not from when the Private Parking Charge was received."

So, as you can see, you are dealing with utter morons and you need to make a formal complaint to the operator pointing out their utter incompetence and demanding that they accept that your appeal was submitted within the timescales as required in the PPSCoP. If they do not respond or accept your appeal, you can then escalate it to the BPA.

Would you like a suitable formal letter of complaint to submit to the operator?
Title: Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park, Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
Post by: bobisnotmyname on January 23, 2025, 05:24:15 pm
Hi b789

Thanks for your welcome and reply.

I thought I'd redacted everything, typical to miss something large!

The NtK / letters are in this google drive link

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1o4hSrVmOX-xbZysvgyEVzaVPEQjqi7Zp?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1o4hSrVmOX-xbZysvgyEVzaVPEQjqi7Zp?usp=sharing)

Thanks

Title: Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park, Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
Post by: b789 on January 23, 2025, 05:11:20 pm
Welcome John. The first thing you may want to do is redact your name and address above. Secondly, can you post a picture of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) you received from OPC. Both sides.

Once we can review the NtK, we can advise on the next steps to take.

Is this the company: Observices Parking Consultancy Ltd (https://observices.co.uk)?

If so, they are BPA members. If they have not accepted your appeal and not provided a POPLA code then we have several avenues we can take.

I have not dealt with this company before and I certainly have not seen anything to suggest they are litigious.
Title: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park, Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a reply
Post by: bobisnotmyname on January 23, 2025, 03:42:42 pm
Hi, please could I ask for some help and advice.

In November I received a PCN from OPC for overstaying the free time period at St John's Retail Park in Wolverhampton (First and second letter in the link below)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1o4hSrVmOX-xbZysvgyEVzaVPEQjqi7Zp?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1o4hSrVmOX-xbZysvgyEVzaVPEQjqi7Zp?usp=sharing)

I sent an email appeal (using the MSE template I have used sucsesfully once before when a ticket machine issue led to a PCN) on the 19th December stating:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: appeals@observices.co.uk
Re PCN number: 'PPC: XXXXXXX'

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

In order to resolve the dispute I attach copies of two transactions made at the Costa in Next on the site during the period in question, while not identifying the driver, I can state that they are currently infirm due to a medical condition.

Regards



THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I received a reply stating:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Automatic reply: Re PCN number: 'PPC: XXXXXX'
Thu, 19 Dec 2024,
 
We acknowledge receipt of your appeal.

A response to your appeal can take up to 35 days. Your ticket has been placed on hold until a decision is made and you will be notified of the outcome.
If your appeal has been received within the 14 day discount period from the issue date of the ticket, then your ticket will be frozen at the reduced amount.
Kind regards
Appeals Department
OPC

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Then on the 20th December I received and sent all of the emails laid out below over the period of two hours.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately,  your appeal has been received out of the required ‘within 28 days from issue date’ of Private Parking Charge XXXXXX.  We are therefore unable to accept your appeal, out of this timeframe.

 Please be advised that Private Parking Charge XXXXX has been issued in line with the Protection of Freedom Act 2012.  The following information can be found on PPC XXXXXX:

“If after 28 days beginning with the day after that on which this notice is given, this Private Parking Charge Notice has not been paid in full, and we have not been made aware of the name and current address for service of the driver, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘the Act’), we do have the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover from the keeper of the vehicle at the time it was parked so much of that amount that remains unpaid. If you are a vehicle-hire firm and the vehicle was hired out at the time the parking took place, please also let us know and provide us with a copy of the hire agreement and a copy of statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. Please note that we may have a right to recover unpaid parking charges from you.”

Regards

Appeals Department

OPC

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I replied
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I sent the appeal yesterday, the 19th December.

This is within 28 days of the issue date
https://www.convertunits.com/dates/28/daysfrom/Nov+21,+2024
And less than 28 days after I received the notice in the post (22nd November).
Please reply to the merits of my appeal.

Regards

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



They said:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your most recent email.

Please be advised, the issue date of PPC XXXXXX was the 21/11/2024.  Your appeal was sent on 19/12/2024, therefore as previously stated the appeal was received out of the required ‘within 28 days from issue date’ to appeal.  Not from when the Private Parking Charge was received.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I replied
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HI

Please read the legislation you quoted to me
"If after 28 days beginning with the day after that on which this notice is given"
Beginning with the day after that which it was given is the key words, 28 days after the 21st November is today the 20th December.
https://www.convertunits.com/dates/28/daysfrom/Nov+22,+2024

Regards

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



They said:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your most recent email.


We kindly ask you to refer to the below excerpt, "If after 28 days beginning with the day after that on which this notice is given" refers to, Private Parking Charge Notice has not been paid in full, and we have not been made aware of the name and current address for service of the driver.  Not relating to appealing.

“If after 28 days beginning with the day after that on which this notice is given, this Private Parking Charge Notice has not been paid in full, and we have not been made aware of the name and current address for service of the driver, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘the Act’), we do have the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover from the keeper of the vehicle at the time it was parked so much of that amount that remains unpaid. If you are a vehicle-hire firm and the vehicle was hired out at the time the parking took place, please also let us know and provide us with a copy of the hire agreement and a copy of statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. Please note that we may have a right to recover unpaid parking charges from you.”

Regards

Appeals Department

OPC

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



My final reply:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi

This is a bit farcical going back and forth, as per your scheme rules, and the reply you sent to me when the appeal and request for information was sent.

"A response to your appeal can take up to 35 days. Your ticket has been placed on hold until a decision is made and you will be notified of the outcome."

I have submitted an appeal on the 27th of 28 days and now have no intention of providing any more information while the ticket is on hold and the appeal / my request for more information is pending.

Please don't contact me again till you have answered all of my questions.

Regards

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't think I responded in the best way possible. I have not heard anything since, post or email. They don't have a site I can login and see the status, I haven't even seen the images the two letters alluded too. Was my appeal sent in time? If so the 35 days expire today (by my calculations), what should I do next? Apologies for the wall of text!

Thanks for any advice or help. It is much appreciated.