Free Traffic Legal Advice
General discussion => The Flame Pit => Topic started by: Hippocrates on January 17, 2025, 12:42:16 pm
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I had the pleasure of watching cp8759 this afternoon. I strongly advise observing hearings via video link as they are public hearings. One just needs to phone the Tribunal and/or e mail them the case number and they will sort it.
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As my 146th birthday is imminent (I am a Gemini), I wonder whether the Tribunal will consider granting me a personal hearing as I have a bus lane case on that day. :D
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@cp8759 Denied access to view a case this afternoon by LT. Two phone calls resulted in two replies: you cannot attend in person and can only attend if the appellant gives you a link.
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Yes several times.
Fortune favours the brave.
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Yes several times.
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Do the council officers ever attend by video? Mine so far have only attended by phone. :D
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What about how many devices needed? When I attend in person, I use my laptop and have very little if no hard copies with me. This new system will require a change of modus operandi. Also, will the adjudicator be able to show me their screen?
You definitely want to have two screens, you can't effectively conduct a hearing with a single laptop screen. I tend to pop the video call on my second screen and keep the docs on my main one, but that's a matter of personal preference.
Any participant can share his screen with the other participants, I've shared my screen with the adjudicator previously at the TPT. Just make sure to close anything unrelated to the case and disable any notifications (such as whatsapp web etc).
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What about how many devices needed? When I attend in person, I use my laptop and have very little if no hard copies with me. This new system will require a change of modus operandi. Also, will the adjudicator be able to show me their screen?
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1. Not everyone is technically efficient.
2. Not all people will heave the necessary equipment.
3. How are panel hearings going to take place?
4. Will those wishing to observe/listen in be required to give their names etc as is the current norm?
Both the TPT and London Tribunals have in person hearings for those who are truly not able / capable of a remote hearing.
In the High Court you have to give your name and email address to observe proceedings because otherwise they can't email you the link. If someone is that bothered they can give their name as "Law Abiding Citizen" and a blatantly throwaway email address, but I'm not really sure why you'd bother. Attendance at a hearing is not conditional on giving your real name.
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1. Not everyone is technically efficient.
2. Not all people will heave the necessary equipment.
3. How are panel hearings going to take place?
4. Will those wishing to observe/listen in be required to give their names etc as is the current norm?
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I am not at all happy about this hence my impulse for starting the thread.
What aren't you happy about exactly?
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I am not at all happy about this hence my impulse for starting the thread.
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Finally found the information.
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/environment-and-traffic-adjudicators-your-microsoft-teams-appeal
Hearings before the Adjudicator are public hearings and may be adjourned to allow for public attendance should the Adjudicator consider it appropriate. ???
That's odd, at the TPT they just let anyone attend the hearing remotely as a member of the public, you just have to stay muted and keep your camera off. The High Court does the same, I have observed more than one High Court hearing via video.
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Finally found the information.
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/environment-and-traffic-adjudicators-your-microsoft-teams-appeal
Hearings before the Adjudicator are public hearings and may be adjourned to allow for public attendance should the Adjudicator consider it appropriate. ???
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were you disappointed at No 3 mr Hippo ? ;D
Not me! More no 4! Kos it's his round! :D
Meanwhile, I thought about an appearance playing this one day outside the Tribunal: https://youtu.be/E6KFAS7ZcCM
It was actually one boat but I split the screen.
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were you disappointed at No 3 mr Hippo ? ;D
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Finally found the information.
One adjudicator told me, if I remember correctly, that from the second week in February parking cases will be heard by video. Also, the following reasons for having a person to person would not be valid:
1. Alleviation of depression by leaving the house.
2. Occasional departures from the house to cure agoraphobia.
3. Unable to afford the make up for the video call.
4. Unable to share by video a drink with mrmustard.
:'(
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Finally found the information.
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The same doesn’t seem to hold true for representatives, as long as they’re not giving evidence.
I think the tribunal makes allowances where the representative is the uncle / neighbour / spouse etc, but I think it would be at the very least heavily frowned upon if one of us regulars gave evidence about the merits of case in which we are acting.
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Well, having spoken with a senior receptionist, they are as clear as mud as to what will happen, where and when....I will try again tomorrow and ask an adjudicator.
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As far as witnesses are concerned, they should not give evidence from abroad unless Practice Direction 32 has been complied with. The relevant part of that reads:
It should not be presumed that all foreign governments are willing to allow their nationals or others within their jurisdiction to be examined before a court in England or Wales by means of VCF. If there is any doubt about this, enquiries should be directed to the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Public Facing Services, Taking of Evidence Team) TOE.Enquiries@fcdo.gov.uk with a view to ensuring that the country from which the evidence is to be taken raises no objection to it at diplomatic level. The party who is directed to be responsible for arranging the VCF (see paragraph 8 below) will be required to make all necessary inquiries about this well in advance of the VCF and must be able to inform the court what those inquiries were and of their outcome.
As will be obvious from the above, there may be legal implications for the witness (I understand that in some countries it is an offence to give evidence to a foreign court from that country) and diplomatic implications for the UK (for offending the sovereignty of that other nation).
I appreciate that PD32 doesn’t apply in the tribunal but the underlying issues are the same.
The same doesn’t seem to hold true for representatives, as long as they’re not giving evidence.
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I did two hearings by phone in Bordeaux in early January. The adjudicator and I had a quick chat about wine so he definitely knew where I was.
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Is that legal? I was told that I couldn't give evidence to an inquest via video link from abroad as I would have to be physically in the UK.
What law says you can't? It's quite common for witnesses and advocates to address UK courts from abroad, it happens literally all the time.
It would be illegal for a judge or adjudicator to conduct the hearing abroad as that would be an infringement of the foreign country's sovereignty, as a judicial office holder is exercising the sovereign power of the state, but an advocate is just a private citizen.
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I also like visiting tribunal but it does take a fair chunk out of my day.
I'm planning to spend more time abroad, probably all of April, and I could still do video meetings from abroad so they are useful.
Is that legal? I was told that I couldn't give evidence to an inquest via video link from abroad as I would have to be physically in the UK.
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Also, does the TPT allow face to face hearings?
No, they would only arrange this by exception if for some good reason a video hearing couldn't take place. An elderly granny who only has a landline and wants to explain that her disabled badge was displayed and the CEO took the pictures at a convenient angle would certainly get one, I don't think any professional rep would.
I know that in-person hearings will carry on but will be on request only as the new hearing centre will be much smaller and only have a fraction of the space. Remote hearings are very convenient, I did some from France over the Christmas break.
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I will try and find out more tomorrow.
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I also like visiting tribunal but it does take a fair chunk out of my day.
I'm planning to spend more time abroad, probably all of April, and I could still do video meetings from abroad so they are useful.
I'm waiting to see how this pans out as I am currently scheduled in person and on video at the same time on 26 February.
Partly my future hearings will be dictated by which adjudicators are still going to sit in person at a hearing centre (think the new one is at Cannon St which is still easy for me on the Northern Line) as if they aren't on my preferred list I will want to try and avoid them anyway.
For me, the jury is out.
I think the one thing that all experts agree on is don't do postal hearings as they can go wrong.
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Presumably the video hearings offer protection for the Adjudicators from irate appellants after losing their cases.
I was at a hearing in Ashford many years ago and the case before mine went in; there was a lot of shouting during the case which suddenly ended with a very very irate appellant leaving the room having lost his case. the Adjudicator looked rather shaken when I went in.
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Hippocrates while video hearings will be the default, you'll still be able to ask for a face to face hearing.
@cp8759 @mrmustard The other Musketeer may wish to give his views here as I am not at all clear that he and I are given or interpreting the information the same way. Also, does the TPT allow face to face hearings?
In any event, where is this published? I also gather that February 2nd is the deadline and then any rescheduled hearing after that date will be via video?
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Admission to a hearing
8.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this paragraph, a hearing shall be held in public.
(2) The adjudicator may direct that the whole or any part of a hearing be held in private if he is satisfied that it is just and reasonable for him so to do by reason of —
(a)the likelihood of disclosure of intimate personal or financial circumstances;
(b)the likelihood of disclosure of commercially sensitive information or information obtained in confidence; or
(c)exceptional circumstances not falling within paragraph (a) or (b).
(3) The following persons shall be entitled to attend the hearing of an appeal which is held in private—
(a)any other adjudicator; and
(b)(for the purpose of discharging his functions as a member of that Council) a member of the Council on Tribunals.
(4) The adjudicator, with the consent of the parties, may permit any other person to attend the hearing of an appeal which is held in private or, where part of it is so held, that part.
(5) Without prejudice to any other powers he may have, an adjudicator may exclude from the hearing of an appeal, or part of it, any person whose conduct has disrupted or is likely, in the opinion of the adjudicator, to disrupt the hearing.
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I very much appreciate the personal hearing. I've been to a few and have won every case so far. the last one I had was on the phone and was very helpful, again I won. (Station Road Barking). I don't like video meetings.
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*train fairs reclaimable as expenses anyway.
No they're not, costs awards are exceptionally rare.
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Hippocrates while video hearings will be the default, you'll still be able to ask for a face to face hearing.
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*train fairs reclaimable as expenses anyway.
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:( :'(
As I joked with Mr Chan and mrmustard the other day, will I need make up? If so, I hope this will be less expensive than my train fares.
This is quite sad, actually, as I like the journey and it gets me out of the house. Last but not least, the personal interactions will be sorely missed.