Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Hashim on January 16, 2025, 07:16:50 pm

Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: cp8759 on February 14, 2025, 06:00:26 pm
For future reference, here is The Newham (Green Street North) (Disabled Resident Parking Places) (No. 2) Order 2013 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1riOYBSFtqO9qyOTtWdWYzWGbHuhV_LNj/view)
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: Enceladus on February 10, 2025, 03:36:37 pm
Quote from: Hashim on February 10, 2025, 03:04:51 am
Good morning.

Received a response today from the council that they will cancel the PCN on a discretionary grounds even though it was issued correctly.

Thanks guys- another win for the motorist...
Yes, well done! Always have a go.
I suspect that Newham didn't want to lose this at Adjudication. The arrangement they have for bays for disabled resident permit holders restricted by zone seems to be unique to Newham.
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: Incandescent on February 10, 2025, 09:46:27 am
Quote from: Hashim on February 10, 2025, 03:04:51 am
Good morning.

Received a response today from the council that they will cancel the PCN on a discretionary grounds even though it was issued correctly.

Thanks guys- another win for the motorist...
Well done !
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: Hashim on February 10, 2025, 03:04:51 am
Good morning.

Received a response today from the council that they will cancel the PCN on a discretionary grounds even though it was issued correctly.

Thanks guys- another win for the motorist...
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: H C Andersen on January 23, 2025, 09:50:46 pm
There have been various permutations of this issue. In this case, a BB holder parked in a bay showing the road marking DISABLED and displayed their BB as required.

They're being penalised because they're not a permit holder of the type specified in the sign.

We've seen BB holders penalised because they parked thinking that the term 'disabled permit holder' applied to them and they've lost at adjudication. But here a blue badge holder parked because the bay was marked with a term which applies ONLY to BB holders and has no relevance to 'disabled permit holders'.


IMO, this has nothing to do with the upright traffic sign, it's the road marking.
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: Enceladus on January 23, 2025, 08:56:35 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on January 23, 2025, 08:26:02 pm
Quote from: H C Andersen on January 23, 2025, 02:03:03 pm
I can't find any authority for the use of the 'DISABLED' road marking with a permit holder traffic sign. Does anyone know of one?

IMO, the road marking is only permissible if the bay is reserved for disabled badge holders, not disabled permit holders.

Isn't that exactly the point that we've made in the representations?
@cp8759, @H C Andersen Well done for having a go. And I really hope that you help the OP prevail.

This sign has been a bone of contention for years on PePiPoo with minimal success at Adjudication. I can't find a copy of the authorisation for the sign but I (vaguely) recall that there is one. It might pre-date the DFT making the authorisations available online. I hope I'm mistaken

@H C Andersen. There is also an authorisation from the DfT to reduce the size of the bays.
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: cp8759 on January 23, 2025, 08:26:02 pm
Quote from: H C Andersen on January 23, 2025, 02:03:03 pm
I can't find any authority for the use of the 'DISABLED' road marking with a permit holder traffic sign. Does anyone know of one?

IMO, the road marking is only permissible if the bay is reserved for disabled badge holders, not disabled permit holders.

Isn't that exactly the point that we've made in the representations?
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: H C Andersen on January 23, 2025, 02:03:03 pm
I can't find any authority for the use of the 'DISABLED' road marking with a permit holder traffic sign. Does anyone know of one?

IMO, the road marking is only permissible if the bay is reserved for disabled badge holders, not disabled permit holders.
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: Hashim on January 23, 2025, 12:23:21 pm
All done!


Thanks

Let's wait for their response...


Hashim
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: cp8759 on January 22, 2025, 11:50:12 pm
I think at the Notice to Owner stage it will be well worth deploying the strategy explained here https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/l-b-waltham-forest-50r-performing-a-prohibited-turn/msg7581/#msg7581

For now please make an informal representation as follows:

Dear London Borough of Newham,

The alleged contravention did not occur, this is because the overall signage did not comply with regulation 18(1) of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996. There is a "DISABLED" legend on the road surface and this clearly indicates that the bay is for disabled badge holders, the regulations do not require any additional signs. I relied on the legend and displayed my blue badge correctly.

There was also a shared use bay sign on the boundary between the bay I was parked in and the next bay, that sign had no directional signs and having seen the disabled legend, I had no reason to look for any other signs.

If the bay is a permit bay, the appropriate legend would be "PERMIT HOLDERS", this would prompt road users to look at the upright sign to determine what type of permit is required.

To put the council's case at its highest, the best that can be said is that the signage was ambiguous; in these circumstances no contravention occurred.

Yours faithfully,


Send this online and take a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: Hashim on January 22, 2025, 10:57:21 pm
Yes. I have diagnosis from the hospital/GP etc...
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: cp8759 on January 22, 2025, 10:41:28 pm
@Hashim do you have any medical documentation that could be provided to the council to confirm the above?
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: Hashim on January 22, 2025, 09:56:59 pm
It was to pick up food for my elderly mother who is at stage 7 of dementia and needs constant 24/7 care. I had to leave my neighbour whilst I rushed out to get it for her as she only likes the food from that bakery. As a disabled person myself I had to rush to get back and parked in that spot not realising that it was for residents.

Thanks

Hashim
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: cp8759 on January 21, 2025, 10:56:27 pm
Well that's not mitigation at all, do you have any actual mitigation: anything such as ill-health, financial difficulties, family problems, recent bereavements, work problems...
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: Hashim on January 21, 2025, 04:24:55 pm
Dear cp8759

I parked there as it was the closest to the bakery where i needed to pick up some stuff.
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: cp8759 on January 18, 2025, 12:01:28 am
@Hashim the code is legally irrelevant, as I said any mitigating circumstances, even if apparently unrelated to the contravention and somewhat far-fetched, can significantly strengthen your case.
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: stamfordman on January 17, 2025, 04:08:48 pm
No sign on Maps view but there now.

(https://i.ibb.co/gZW0FY3/new2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/S7s5Ytr/new1.jpg)
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: Hashim on January 17, 2025, 03:37:56 pm
https://maps.app.goo.gl/LH9RbQUC3KTWqPpR9
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: Hashim on January 17, 2025, 07:34:17 am
I wanted to shop at the local store and as a disabled driver this was the closest disabled bay that I found not realising that it was a residential bay.

Also is the coding on the PCN correct?

Thanks
Hashim
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: cp8759 on January 17, 2025, 12:23:41 am
I have requested the traffic order for the bay, the last time I dealt with such a bay in Newham it turned out the traffic order didn't exist, or rather it did but it was for a normal bay.

Also do you have any mitigating circumstances, even if unrelated to the contravention itself?
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: stamfordman on January 16, 2025, 11:41:40 pm
It's a code 16 with a suffix 5, which means dedicated disabled bay.

Newham is not a forgiving council but we can look at this if you post the PCN. no redactions.
Title: Re: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: Incandescent on January 16, 2025, 11:10:13 pm
The contravention on the PCN is clear enough. Where did you get that description of the code number ?

Please post a GSV view to the exact location of parking.
Title: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: Hashim on January 16, 2025, 08:30:56 pm
Hello

I received a PCN today for parking in a disabled parking bay with my disabled badge but failed to see that it was the residents disabled bay.
The code contravention stated on the PCN is code 165 which according to Mr Google is
'Parking in front of a dropped footway'

Is there anything here that can be appealed.

Thanks

Hashim

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Title: London Borough of Newham Code 165
Post by: Hashim on January 16, 2025, 07:16:50 pm
Received a PCN being parked in a disabled bay with my disabled badge clearly visible. Didn't see the sign saying 'resident permit holders only' though with
Contravention code 165 listed as the offence on the PCN.

According to Mr Google code 165 relates to parking infront of a dropped footway which clearly this wasn't.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Hashim




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