Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: qaz on January 16, 2025, 11:38:50 am
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thaks again, have made an appear now based on my unfamiliarity to the signage
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can i just write my explanation to them or does it automatically go to the court if it fails, because i see that if court finds me guilty the fine goes up
thanks
This is a civil process, so 'guilty' or 'innocent' doesn't apply nor is there a court. What there is, is the Traffic Enforcement Centre that acts as a county (civil law) court but it has no judges or courtrooms. All this centre does is register a debt if the council have had no response to any of the statutory enforcement documents. It allows them to instruct bailiffs to recover the debt.
As regards the submission of representations, if these are rejected by Bristol, you then have the right in law to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, which is not a court, but it's decisions have the force of law. At this tribunal, an adjudicator decides which party is correct "on the balance of probabilities" (the civil law test). If you win, the PCN is cancelled and you pay nothing. If you lose, you have to pay the PCN penalty.
Reps that are rejected by the council are not automatically transferred to the tribunal, you have to either pay the PCN or take them to the tribunal.
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can i just write my explanation to them or does it automatically go to the court if it fails, because i see that if court finds me guilty the fine goes up
thanks
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thanks everyone for your time and expertise whos looked and advised me about this, one last question : does anyone every have luck in asking for the fine to be waived on the grounds of being a visitor to the uk and find it all very confusing . In the UK i have paid one fine in recent years for driving in bus lanes and one for speeding by a very small amount.
if i do ask for the fine to be waived i can include my Canadian license and ID, in addittion my uk license has DR. in front of my name
thanks
No problem. You need to present whatever you have to persuade them.
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thanks everyone for your time and expertise whos looked and advised me about this, one last question : does anyone every have luck in asking for the fine to be waived on the grounds of being a visitor to the uk and find it all very confusing . In the UK i have paid one fine in recent years for driving in bus lanes and one for speeding by a very small amount.
if i do ask for the fine to be waived i can include my Canadian license and ID, in addittion my uk license has DR. in front of my name
thanks
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if anyone has the time id' really appreciate these day pages [previously missing] being checked as i wouldn't know what to look for
thanks very much
They look OK. We look to see if the content as laid down in the regulations, (see top of page 1 of your PCN), is all there. You'd be surprised how many councils get this wrong.
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if anyone has the time id' really appreciate these day pages [previously missing] being checked as i wouldn't know what to look for
thanks very much
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.
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.here are the 2 missing pages
thanx
[attachment deleted by admin]
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[attachment deleted by admin]
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sorry ,, will post them this w/end
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"So you need to post all pages of the PCN so we can check it for fatal errors."
i posted the pages except for last one that had effectively nothing on it. do the not show up
thanx
I can see page 1 three time and page 2 once, but there's no sign of pages 3 and 4. Please post both the missing pages (even if you think they have 'effectively nothing' on them!) so we can check all the statutory information is present. You'd be surprised how many cases are won on a technicality because something the law requires is missing from the PCN.
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"So you need to post all pages of the PCN so we can check it for fatal errors."
i posted the pages except for last one that had effectively nothing on it. do the not show up
thanx
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i'm assuming the paperwork is in order
Well it may not be, if one includes the council administration of enforcement, and their website for submitting representations.
So you need to post all pages of the PCN so we can check it for fatal errors. Also check their pages for submitting representations and look to see if the list of statutory grounds for an appeal shown on your PCN are present on their web pages. Past up screen captures if you are at all suspicious.
Councils have to obey the law and regulations the same as you, so if they don't, even if the contravention is made out, they cannot enforce it. This principle has now one a lot of appeals at London Tribunals for London cases.
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Oh dear, this location seems to be becoming a 'hardy annual' ! There are warning signs way back from the bus gate. Here is one: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/AQmwEnQe1aLtd7ZP7
then this one: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UYYhGPJ2A3evsaRY9
and then this one: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qWTzcYUbJto19t4r5
then the bus gate itself: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6CqqGKBgbX6HuRWY7
So you'll struggle to convince an adjudicator, (the only unbiased judge), that it's badly signed.
oh dear, never saw them, you are quite right about the outcome i suspect. guess that puts the cap on it ....thanks Incandescent, and every one, unless theres any more to be investigated. i'm assuming the paperwork is in order
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Oh dear, this location seems to be becoming a 'hardy annual' ! There are warning signs way back from the bus gate. Here is one: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/AQmwEnQe1aLtd7ZP7
then this one: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UYYhGPJ2A3evsaRY9
and then this one: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qWTzcYUbJto19t4r5
then the bus gate itself: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6CqqGKBgbX6HuRWY7
So you'll struggle to convince an adjudicator, (the only unbiased judge), that it's badly signed.
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I've removed most of the redundant posts about locating the video to make this topic easier to read through.
thanx
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I've removed most of the redundant posts about locating the video to make this topic easier to read through.
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there's no link to any video
Found it! You have to scroll right down on the imgur link.
I'll try and post a direct link here.
https://i.imgur.com/f94GftH.mp4
ah ok I did see that but at a quick glance looked like a still image, my mistake
no problem, not as bigger mistake as going through a busgate :)
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there's no link to any video
Found it! You have to scroll right down on the imgur link.
I'll try and post a direct link here.
https://i.imgur.com/f94GftH.mp4
very odd, i only added it at the bottom just now as a last resort LOL
thanks
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scroll to top of this thread and you'll see your first post.
no link there
sorry i dont understand, i just looked again and saw the links and copied them for you to here can you suggest what im not doing right?
PCN Cumberland Gate, Bristol
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jhd91Yu3AFjbrpXc6
https://imgur.com/a/p9KNUBa
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here it is again; https://imgur.com/a/p9KNUBa
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was sent to my bristol address
i posted a video link, is it not working?
thanks
So Mark
who's address was the paperwork sent to?
link you video?
edited as cross posted
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When you hit the Reply button (not 'Quick Reply') you will find the 'Notify me of replies' tick box below the main reply box.
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please can a moderator turn on my instant notification as i cant find the setting despite reading about it. thanks
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yes i'm a canadian citizen i have dual nationality
car is mine
i dont particularly want to know what happens if appeal were to fail, i think i already know , i also have uk license etc
thanks
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Whose car is it? A hire car or a friends?
Are you a Canadian citizen?
Do you want to challenge or just know what happens if you don’t pay?
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i have posted all 3 pages [nothing on the 4th side]
i guess the second post was A Mistake, sorry
circumstance was that i simply didn't notice the signs at bus gate and the red surface looked like a bus stop area so it didnt raise an alarm
i visit frequently from canada, the traffic system is completely different there. not an excuse, but it does make things difficult
thanks
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warning for posting again??
just add your posts to this thread.
as John uk said your other thread will be removed.
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ok now ive got a warning for posting again [a bit stiff i think]. what should i do, delete the first one, i cant see how nor how to modify the above post so Ive added a msg here
maybe a moderator could delete the first post,thanx
i do appreciate the site very much and peoples time but am finding navigation a bit confusing , any help to with this appreciated, thanks
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Please edit yr post to add a brief account of the circumstances that gave rise to the PCN and also add the remaining pages of the PCN. Then yr original thread will be deleted.
Have you obtained the video?
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PCN Cumberland Gate, Bristol
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jhd91Yu3AFjbrpXc6
[attachment deleted by admin]
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PCN Cumberland Gate, Bristol
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jhd91Yu3AFjbrpXc6
https://imgur.com/a/p9KNUBa
hi everyone, ive had a huge amount of trouble setting this up including at imgur so
pls forgive any errors. i will correct them as i notice or am told
am hoping people will take a look at the situation around the ticket i got for going through a bus gate and see if its worth appealing
thanks very much in advance , mark
circumstance was that i simply didn't notice the signs at bus gate and the red surface looked like a bus stop area so it didnt raise an alarm
i visit frequently from canada, the traffic system is completely different there. not an excuse, but it does make things difficult. have uk and canadian licenses and dual nationality
am hoping to discover[with peoples generous help] if its worth challenging
please bear in mind that i'm stumbling around this forum
PCN Cumberland Gate, Bristol
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jhd91Yu3AFjbrpXc6
https://imgur.com/a/p9KNUBa
[attachment deleted by admin]