Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: darkiye on January 13, 2025, 04:35:11 pm
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Not sure what your car insurance has to do with this, but the chances of a win in your case looked pretty small to me, having seen the video.
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Thanks everyone for your comments and advice.
I took some legal advice on my car insurance (LV=) and I decided to pay instead of making a Statutory Declaration. If TfL took it to court, I would have to argue that I was 'not notified' about the rejection of my representation, even though I was specifically warned not to assume the representation was accepted.
However, I think it's pretty obvious to anybody who has had to pay a PCN, CC, or any other charge TfL levies on motorists, that they make every effort to make payment as ambiguous as they possibly can in order to maximise the amount they get from you, while staying just adroit of the legal framework. Before Auto Pay was rolled out a couple of years ago, you needed to know if you needed to pay CC. So if you weren't sure if your car had been in the CC zone (e.g. if you lent your car to someone), you had two choices:
- Pay the charge (TfL is glad to have your money even if your car was parked in your garage!)
- Wait for a fine in the post
Yes, TfL monitors vehicles entering the CC zone, and instead of looking up your details in order to issue a legally-regulated driving toll, it ISSUES A FINE. Whoever came up with that system is an evil genius.
Between this and the illegitimate bus lane fine I got from Brent council I've had it, I'm not taking any more chances in London.
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I would suggest there was an exit available in the left lane, which you later took, so there may be milage in the not stopped due to stationary vehicles but would be a long shot
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is the video really that close up and cropped???
No, it's in two parts.The second part shows the vehicles from a distance.
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is the video really that close up and cropped???
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Hello, thanks for the replies. Sorry for the delay in getting back. I have received the video from TfL and uploaded it here:
https://imgur.com/a/ZV8e7OP
Imgur has a limit of 1 minute duration of videos so I needed to trim 2 seconds off the end.
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Yes, we need to see the videos, but your first and major task now is to get matter reverted to the representations stage.
The plain fact is you received the postal PCN and then submitted representions, but received no reply. At the Order for Recovery stage, when TfL have registered the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, you have the opportunity to submit a Statutory Declaration that you submitted reps but did not receive a reply. TEC will cancel the OfR and the CC when they process your SD. However it must be made in-time in accordance with the timescale given on the OfR. Once things get 'oit-of-time' it becomes megadifficult. Once your CC and OfR are cancelled, TfL must refer the matter to the adjudicator.
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we need to see the video. if you haven't already, ask tfl for it ASAP.
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PCN and Charge Certificate: https://imgur.com/a/c2Q75Ba
PCN status history with my email address removed: https://imgur.com/a/ZF9AqSB
If you look closely at the photo on the PCN, you can see that the license plate LR21DJJ belongs to the car at the top of the photo and is not the main subject. On this basis I made a representation on the TfL website straight away. The PCN status history on the website says that TfL sent me a confirmation email with the subject 'Representation receipted' which I don't have a record of.
I received a Charge Certificate from TfL today. I checked the PCN status history on the website, and apparently the representation was rejected in December. The history doesn't show the reason for the rejection or any attempt to notify me. I called the red routes phone number at 0343 222 2222 and explained that I don't think I broke the rules and the evidence they showed me proves nothing. I was informed that:
- my car was in the junction for 7 seconds
- TfL will continue with the enforcement process
- My next options are either to pay the PCN, or wait for the Order for Recovery and appeal to the Traffic Enforcement Centre with a Statutory Declaration
I checked the PCN spreadsheet Google doc in the sticky, and according to TfL's Enforcement Operations Agreement document (https://content.tfl.gov.uk/eops-schedule2-appendix9-tfl-business-rules.pdf) 6.3 indicates if the car is stationary for more than 5 seconds when even partially inside the box, the representation is rejected. It's a fair cop! However...
tfl.gov.uk states I may make a Statutory Declaration if "You made a representation to us but did not receive a reply - This only applies if you made a representation within the time limit to the correct address provided on the PCN and did not receive a response from us. It does not apply if you received a reply you disagreed with or if we refused to consider your representation because it was late."
I think I may be able to make a Statutory Declaration on this point? As I mentioned, the PCN status history on the website says I was sent an email on receipt, but I was not sent an email telling me about the rejection, and I still do not know why my representation was rejected. However, I do not know what my entitlements are according to TfL rules. I would be obliged if anyone has any information about whether I should wait and make a Statutory Declaration or if I should try to do something else.