Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Noisey_Parker on January 12, 2025, 12:23:59 am
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I’ve attached their response but I don’t think I’ve saved a local copy of my appeal (may have pasted the text on notepad somewhere, will have a look).
Thought they may have the copy in the PCN page log.
Anyway I’ve attached their response
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Appeal rejected... oh well.
I assume these were nformal reps to the Council rather than appeal to tribunal?
Please post up a copy of what you wrote and of their reply (redact only yr name & address).
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Appeal rejected... oh well.
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Yes.
This is the enforcement procedure for parking contraventions:
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process
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And is referring to adjudication only reached after NtO has been issued?
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Why would I not exercise my right to appeal, especially if I feel the signage is ambiguous and inconsistent with other signage?
Even if I’m just chancing it.
Rather surprised you appear to be suggesting I just cough up and not appeal at all?
No problem with you submitting reps at all, but councils dine out very generously on rejecting virtually all informal reps. It's only when they have to do some real work for their money that they sometimes concede, and this point is reached at the NtO stage.
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Why would I not exercise my right to appeal, especially if I feel the signage is ambiguous and inconsistent with other signage?
Even if I’m just chancing it.
Rather surprised you appear to be suggesting I just cough up and not appeal at all?
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Surely I still get the option to pay the discounted fine if it gets rejected, right?
I don’t wish for it to got to NtO.
Yes you do, but as we know virtually all informal challenges get rejected by councils, why are you submitting reps if all you're going to do when rejected is cough-up ?
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Surely I still get the option to pay the discounted fine if it gets rejected, right?
I don’t wish for it to got to NtO.
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Yes I’ll be challenging only within the 14 days, regardless of FOI outcome.
Car is leased and lease company charge an Admin fee to deal with any NTO so wish to avoid that
Whilst you can challenge the PCN itself, you cannot submit reps against the NtO unless the lease company pass on your name and address, (and charge a fee, of course !). Your challenge is invariably going to be rejected, so what are you going to do then ?
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Yes I’ll be challenging only within the 14 days, regardless of FOI outcome.
Car is leased and lease company charge an Admin fee to deal with any NTO so wish to avoid that
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The FOI may take time to get a response, so best if you submit at least some reps before the discount date expires. That means you will get a further 14 days to pay the discount when they inevitably reject your reps. Once the FOI comes back and if you want to take the matter further, you can submit reps against the Notice to Owner, but the discount will have gone at that stage.
Is your car hired or leased, and is the V5C up-to-date address-wise ?
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Thank you.
I know I’m clutching at straws but I’ve also submitted a FOI request to MCC asking how many appeals/challenges they’ve had in the immediate vicinity citing unclear or insufficient signage. If the response comes back in time I’ll perhaps consider including anything substantive from that to support my argument
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So here is the sign you passed : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZG67y6Ws4rDdbRxA7
It's clear enough, and you have already sais you took it as applying only to that side, an unfortunate misapprehension. However, best action now is to submit reps on the basis that like all the other street parking notices you are familiar with, you took the sign as only applying to the side on which the sign is mounted. If two signs had been placed, one each side, the contravention would not have occurred.
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Thank you for the prompt response.
This is the GSV location I parked in. (Hoping the link works). Basically opposite to number 38-40 oxney rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9WardSUtFB6dEWZj6
I accessed the road, traveling west along Oxford Pl and then turning left to head south onto Oxney Rd.
The signage was a bit further into the road on my right hand side (red square) and I parked where I’ve circled in blue.
[attachimg=3]
Here’s the bottom of the front of the PCN, that o didn’t capture in my first photo
[attachimg=1]
Here’s the rear of the PCN
[attachimg=2]
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The photo of the sign you have posted applies, as it says, to parking beyond the notice, therefore all sides. These signs are indicating Permit Parking Zones. Please advise us where exactly you parked using GSV, and also your route to get there off the Wilmslow Road. There is no legal requirement for two signs, one on each side, but councils have a duty under LATOR Regulation 18, to place adequate signage indicating a restriction in a Traffic Regulation Order.
Problem is that 'adequate' is subjective. To you it's inadequate, to the council, and maybe an adjudicator, it is adequate.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
Wait a bit to see what others say before you submit any representations. Don't just cough-up now, because if they refuse your reps, (which to maintain the discount must be submitted within the discount period), they'll give you another 14 days to pay the discount. They may also shoot themselves in the foot when replying too !
Please post back of PCN so we can check it for fatal errors.
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Not sure if there’s anywhere that has specific rules on how and where signage should be displayed.
I parked at this location (https://maps.app.goo.gl/45WppsQgNJy1bjU26?g_st=ic) on the east side of the road.
The signage is as in below image but only on the western side of the road.
That’s at both ends. So if you enter the street from the north, it’s on your off-side and if you enter the street from the south, it’s on your near side. The houses are also on the western side.
(https://imgur.com/a/KPaTpDV)
There are no marked bays.
I was genuinely under the impression that because the road sign was only on one side, at both ends, that it only applied to that side.
Is here any legitimate challenge to this?
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
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