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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Torenaga on June 18, 2023, 06:12:42 pm

Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: cp8759 on November 05, 2023, 11:57:46 am
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1HKnt95nfr3nr-dCztz--L1AtrvedJkTB).
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on September 24, 2023, 07:57:46 pm
Thank you cp,
I really appreciate the help.

I will send everything over to you by the end of the day tomorrow.

Kind regards
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: cp8759 on September 24, 2023, 05:33:28 pm
Well as the discount is not on offer it's a no-brainer to carry on. If you'd like me to represent you, send me an email with all the same stuff as last time (unredacted NOR, link to this thread & letter of authority).
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: H C Andersen on September 24, 2023, 08:10:46 am

So many procedural errors in the NOR it's difficult to know where to start:

Fettering discretion;
Failure to give the mandatory information correctly(28 days from; no mention of adjudicator's power to register appeal made outside the 28-day period; may serve a CC, not issue....)
Failure to consider i.e. where's their comment regarding 'penalty exceeded..' and the premium telephone number?
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on September 23, 2023, 11:23:56 pm
Hi everyone,
Bit late to post this, Croydon have responded to my appeal, and of course they have rejected the appeal.
This is what they sent to me.

https://flic.kr/p/2p4TofH
https://flic.kr/p/2p4Tojf
https://flic.kr/p/2p4RrHv

Kind regards
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on August 30, 2023, 12:26:32 am
All done, thank you again CP
Kind regards
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: cp8759 on August 30, 2023, 12:05:43 am
Draft reps:

Dear London Borough of Croydon,

I would like to ask that PCN CR45322396 be cancelled based on the following.

Firstly, I approach the location by driving past west Croydon station from London Road, then turned right onto Tamworth road, drove all the way down to Drummond Road and then took a left into Frith Road. By taking this route, I did not pass any adequate signage that informed me of the controlled hours.

Further to this, and by way of mitigation, the mischief that the regulations are aimed at did not occur: by uncle who is a blue badge holder was in the car and I displayed his blue badge, it was a mere oversight that the clock was not displayed. While this is not in itself a defence, I would ask you to show some discretion for a blue badge holder, considering that we parked at around 12 pm so we did not overstay the three hour time limit.

In any event the penalty demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case, this is because the PCN carries a premium rate telephone number that includes a service charge. In accordance with Paul Bateman v Derbyshire County Council (DJ00037-2209, 10 November 2022), this means that the penalty demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case.

Yours faithfully,


Don't forget to attach this (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=11TEzgfHFInCTo-JTFFtWJ8pbIXnMvJCd), and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on August 29, 2023, 10:54:06 pm
I was driving and my uncle was in the car at the time CP
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: cp8759 on August 29, 2023, 07:18:50 pm
I think that sign (https://goo.gl/maps/y2SpLhkFnogD4fJq7) is bad enough that we can raise the issue of adequacy.

For the purposes of drafting representations, you were driving and your uncle was in the car? Or were you picking him up?
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on August 29, 2023, 01:00:20 am
Ok, I've just looked at Google Street View, there is a controlled zone sign just after west Croydon station before you turn right into Tamworth road. Easily missed, especially if there is a bus in the bus lane.
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on August 29, 2023, 12:54:48 am
But, I can tell you that I came down past west Croydon station from London Road then turned right onto Tamworth road, followed it all the way down to drummond Road and then took a left into Frith Road. This is the way I always go into Croydon.
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on August 29, 2023, 12:47:24 am
Ok, thank you CP.
I will go which ever way you advise on this.
As going back to Croydon the exact same route and looking out for the signs will be time consuming considering the time is nearly up.

Kind regards
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: cp8759 on August 29, 2023, 12:16:34 am
The zone entrance signs are on the boundary of the zone, the car was in the Croydon Central zone, see the map here (https://www.croydon.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Parking%20streets%20and%20transport/Parking/permit%20zone%20maps/Centre_Permit_Zone.pdf).

Like many zones, it covers multiple streets so to defend the allegation on the signage, you'd have to determine exactly where the car entered the zone, and then you'd have to go and check the signage at that location. It does happen that the signs are obscured, missing, bent, turned around and so on.

On the other hand we only have until Wednesday to make reps, so we might have to limit ourselves to a plea for discretion + the 0845 point, and leave any issues of signage for the tribunal stage.
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on August 29, 2023, 12:10:07 am
The circumstances of that pcn was that a blue badge was not displayed on the dash of the car at all when it was parked near my house in the disabled bay.
I appealed to them on that occasion to use discretion as my uncle was visiting at the time who has a blue badge, I also sent them a copy of it.

Kind regards
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Incandescent on August 28, 2023, 11:55:41 pm
Their letter also refers to you having had a recent PCN cancelled in similar circumstances, and that you were told they would not cancel again if those circumstances occurred again. Can you please tell us about this case, because on the face of it, they have failed to consider your reps.
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on August 28, 2023, 11:43:46 pm
Also, this is the entrance to Frith Road.

In the rejection, croydon says that restrictions times may be displayed by the entrance to the controlled zone,  but I never saw these controlled times.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/8LEyCoU8ZXXLn9ie6
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on August 28, 2023, 11:37:08 pm
On their response to my initial reps, they say that I was parked on a single yellow line when I was not allowed to, surely this is wrong, as with a blue badge, you are allowed three hours to park on that section of the road as there are no lines on the pavement restricting you.

In their response they are essentially saying that you are not allowed to park there at all during certain hours. Not once in the response did they say that due to the failure of displaying a clock they would not allow the reps.
Surely this is a mistake on their behalf?
Or is this wrong on my half?

Kind regards
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: cp8759 on August 28, 2023, 11:08:41 pm
Is there any particular mitigation you can put forward?

We can use the 0845 argument but if there's any mitigation we should put that forward as well.
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on August 28, 2023, 10:36:12 pm
Hi Cp.
Here is the copy I sent them.

https://flic.kr/p/2oYdRcL

Kind regards
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: cp8759 on August 28, 2023, 10:30:08 pm
What did you say in your informal representations? Please either post a copy, or if you didn't keep one, recreate it from memory as best you can.
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on August 28, 2023, 10:08:12 pm
Hi everyone, I'm a bit late to post these as have been very busy.
I got a reply from the council back in June and this was their reply.

https://flic.kr/p/2oYauDx
https://flic.kr/p/2oYauDY

I decided to wait for the NTO and I received it around the 7th of August.

https://flic.kr/p/2oYauCL
https://flic.kr/p/2oY4Zca
https://flic.kr/p/2oYauDT

What should my next step be?
Kind regards
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on June 20, 2023, 02:19:46 pm
Thank you CP
I will do 👍
Title: Re: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: cp8759 on June 19, 2023, 01:49:33 am
The 0845 ground is likely to win against Croydon, if nothing else because they won't understand it.

Post the council rejection on here when it comes through.
Title: Croydon PCN (01) parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
Post by: Torenaga on June 18, 2023, 06:12:42 pm
Hi everyone,
Just reposting this from pepipoo.com to keep everyone updated on the outcome.

Another PCN with Croydon, this time I took my uncle who has a blue badge, to Croydon and parked in Frith Road on a single yellow line, but of course I forgot to display the timer on this occasion. From what I can tell there are no loading restrictions on that part of the road.
This was a bank holiday but have read that parking restrictions on yellow lines are still in force during bank holidays.
What is the best way to appeal this?

I have noted that the phone number on the back of the PCN is still an 0845 number, so not sure if this is still a basis for an appeal?

Kind regards.

26 Frith Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/QBJm6tNCDMMTVNDb9

https://flic.kr/p/2oFEcVW

https://flic.kr/p/2oFKevY

I have appealed to Croydon requesting discretion on this occasion.
The only problem is, is that they have exercised discretion before for me.
I will keep you updated.

Kind regards