Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: twigtwig on January 09, 2025, 09:14:52 pm
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Hello. Letter received from Ealing Council today stating that PCN has been cancelled. Thank you all for advice. Best.
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Thank you HC Anderson. I will wait and update with outcomes and update the forum. Nomatter what the result, I will try to donate something as it is a vauable service that you offer.
Thank you.
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The site needs funds, so pl don't let my next comment deter you.
But, you're simply following a process...and it might happen that they could prove they issued a written notice within the timeframe.
You not receiving is not 100% proof that something wasn't sent, although their website PCN history would not appear to support this.
But the burden has now shifted to them!
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I'd email them.
PCN ********
I refer to the above, your Notice to Owner dated 3 March and my emailed formal representations dated and sent on 31 March.
By virtue of the authority having failed to comply with regulation 6(7) of the Appeals Regulations(to serve notice of their decision within the 56-day period - at the date of writing 59 days have elapsed) then regulation 6(7)(b) applies, as follows:
(7) If the enforcement authority fails to comply with the requirements specified in paragraph (4) within the 56-day period—
(a)it is deemed for the purposes of these Regulations to have accepted the representations made by the recipient, and
(b)it must—
(i)cancel the relevant enforcement notice,
(ii)refund any sum paid in relation to it, and
(iii)serve a notice on the recipient informing the recipient that the enforcement notice has been cancelled because the enforcement authority failed to serve a decision notice in accordance with paragraph (4)(b).
Yours,.....
Done, thank you HC Anderson.
Also - is there any way I can thank the site by way of donation for the assistance it has given me? Perhaps something towards the running costs etc?
I saw when researching this PCN an option to donate to a local hospice, also happy to donate here in the website's name, if that is the preferred way.
Thank you all for your patience and assistance.
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I'd email them.
PCN ********
I refer to the above, your Notice to Owner dated 3 March and my emailed formal representations dated and sent on 31 March.
By virtue of the authority having failed to comply with regulation 6(7) of the Appeals Regulations(to serve notice of their decision within the 56-day period - at the date of writing 59 days have elapsed) then regulation 6(7)(b) applies, as follows:
(7) If the enforcement authority fails to comply with the requirements specified in paragraph (4) within the 56-day period—
(a)it is deemed for the purposes of these Regulations to have accepted the representations made by the recipient, and
(b)it must—
(i)cancel the relevant enforcement notice,
(ii)refund any sum paid in relation to it, and
(iii)serve a notice on the recipient informing the recipient that the enforcement notice has been cancelled because the enforcement authority failed to serve a decision notice in accordance with paragraph (4)(b).
Yours,.....
Done, thank you HC Anderson.
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I'd email them.
PCN ********
I refer to the above, your Notice to Owner dated 3 March and my emailed formal representations dated and sent on 31 March.
By virtue of the authority having failed to comply with regulation 6(7) of the Appeals Regulations(to serve notice of their decision within the 56-day period - at the date of writing 59 days have elapsed) then regulation 6(7)(b) applies, as follows:
(7) If the enforcement authority fails to comply with the requirements specified in paragraph (4) within the 56-day period—
(a)it is deemed for the purposes of these Regulations to have accepted the representations made by the recipient, and
(b)it must—
(i)cancel the relevant enforcement notice,
(ii)refund any sum paid in relation to it, and
(iii)serve a notice on the recipient informing the recipient that the enforcement notice has been cancelled because the enforcement authority failed to serve a decision notice in accordance with paragraph (4)(b).
Yours,.....
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Then your email reps were in time...assuming email is permitted and reps comply with instructions as to their form..we can't see, they've not been posted.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/d9vvu7dan61cs4oywxin9/AKtW0pyZnAo4tnX29kQIqZw?rlkey=74nw0nh6l736zoylccv0f7z0q&dl=0
Hello - it seems my original link with all documents in has expired.
Please see here for
-Informal challenge (22nd Jan 25)
-Rejection of informal challenge (29th Jan 25)
-Notice to Owner (3rd March 25)
-Response to Notice to Owner (31st March 25).
Thanks.
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Then your email reps were in time...assuming email is permitted and reps comply with instructions as to their form..we can't see, they've not been posted.
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Date of NTO, not date received.
Thurs. 27 Feb.
Fri. 28 Feb.
Sat. 1 March.
Sun. 2 March
Mon. 3 March.
If dated 27th or earlier, then you were late. If dated 28th then you were in time.
Let's at least find out the basics.
Hello, NTO is dated 3rd March - it was sent via email too on this date and also received in the mail in paper a few days later (around 5th - 6th March).
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Date of NTO, not date received.
Thurs. 27 Feb.
Fri. 28 Feb.
Sat. 1 March.
Sun. 2 March
Mon. 3 March.
If dated 27th or earlier, then you were late. If dated 28th then you were in time.
Let's at least find out the basics.
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The date of the NTO pl;
Also, how did you submit the formal reps?
I just want to check that you did not submit them late, which could mean they were disregarded. (you appear to have calculated 31 March and I cannot access the PCN or NTO to look at the authority's website.
Also, reps sent via email - thank you.
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Hi all,
Date of ticket - 08 Jan 2025
Informal Challenge Sent - 22nd Jan 25
Decline of Challenge - 29 January 2025
NTO received - 03 March 25
Reps sent via email - 31 March 25
On the status on the council website it shows 'Amount Due: £130.00 / NTO/Enf. Notice Sent'
Thanks
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The 56 days counts from the council receipt of those representations.
Have you checked the PCN status on their website ? They may have already sent a response in the post.
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The date of the NTO pl;
Also, how did you submit the formal reps?
I just want to check that you did not submit them late, which could mean they were disregarded. (you appear to have calculated 31 March and I cannot access the PCN or NTO to look at the authority's website.
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Hello. I submitted my appeal for the Notice To Owner on 31st March 25.
In the rejection of the informal challenge, Ealing Council state
"We will consider your representations and any supporting evidence, and serve a notice on you of our decision, within the period of 56 days beginning with the date on which we receive your representations, except where we have decided to disregard your representations by reason of their being received after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this Notice to Owner."
56 days from 31st March is yesterday (26th May).
Does this means that that I have won the appeal by default?
Thank you for your advice / guidance so far.
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Hello all,
Looking at writing a response to the NTO attached.
I can't see any errors in the NTO - but if anyone else can that would be great!
Otherwise, planning to send in a reply stating not all previous grounds considered etc, and also incldue images using a tracking link, so can see if not all evidence is fully considered.
Any input / thoughts would be greatfully received.
Deadline for reply is 31st March.
Thanks.
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Hello all,
Notice to Owner received today - can be viewed here. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3uty8yfx717ls6m3zp014/Notice-To-Owner-REDACTED.pdf?rlkey=0c5ir0apdccrun09ksao7tuse&dl=0
I cannot see any immediate errors in the ticket, but any advice / assistance would be appreciated - if more trained eyes can spot something I have missed.
Thank you.
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Correct.
Time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted!
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Hi HC Anderson,
Your message made me think - I have contacted Ealing today and they have said that if a formal appeal is rejected, then they would re-offer the discount. In that situation, as you say there is nothing to lose by submitting a formal appeal (bar time?)
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The key point is whether Ealing would re-offer the discount even after unsuccessful formal reps. If yes, then:
What's to lose by continuing? Nothing.
What's to gain? Possibly a serious flaw in their NOR giving you a procedural impropriety card to play at adjudication.
But if the discount would not be re-offered then the risk of losing £65 comes into play v possible procedural error.
Maybe others know about Ealing's track record.
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Thank you both for the advice. If there is no hope, and two experts believe it to have been correctly issued, I will chalk this one up to experience. Thank you.
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The DYL and kerb blips are absolutely clear. This would be an adjudicator's starting point IMO.
Their response to your informal is pretty standard, it's the response to formal reps which carries real weight.
If Ealing re-offer the discount even after unsuccessful reps then you could chance your arm that they'd be a flaw in any NOR. Otherwise, IMO as you don't have a leg to stand on as regards the contravention on the basis of what we know then ......the choice is yours.
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Their letter of refusal is flawed. Whilst a CEO may see no loading activity, it doesn't mean the exemption doesn't apply when the PCN is challenged. The activity of 'loading' includes all the activities necessary, including taking the goods to where they can be accepted, exchanging paperwork etc. During this latter activity, the vehicle may be unattended and locked.
However this is all irrelevant, because loading is barred 24x7 where you parked, and it is clear from their photos that the double kerb blips are visible, (see the photo with the bicycle in it by your car).
The PCN signing aspect is trivial and not something that would win at adjudication. There is no requirement in law for it.
So my view is that whilst you have the absolute right in law to appeal to London Tribunals, you would not win on the above. However, there may be a technical appeal based on council mismanagement of the enforcement process. There have been several cases now where it has been shown that the on-line pages for submitting representations are flawed. I am not an expert in this aspect, so hopefully somebody will come on here and advise.
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Hello all,
I submitted an informal challenge to the PCN on the grounds that the signage / lines were unclear as per the following images and that the PCN was not signed.
I have had a rejection back from Ealing Council, but this has not addressed the two points I raised, nameley that the PCN was not signed and the lines being unclear - the images that I sent have not been accessed or commented on.
Would this constitute a failure to consider? Was considering re-sending the appeal for a formal challenge, but any thouguts welcome.
Informal challenge
Date of Appeal – 22nd Jan 2025
Representations to Penalty Charge Notice
Dear Pritesh Kalya / Ealing Parking Services,
I am writing to appeal the ticket that was issued to my car on the following grounds:
1. The signage was not clear
I parked my car on the double yellow lines on High Street W5, to drop a large parcel to Marks & Spencer’s. This shop does not have parking, and this was the nearest location where parking would be possible.
I am aware that loading / unloading is permitted on double yellow lines, as per the guidance on the London Councils website, which states: “Loading and unloading is permitted on single and double yellow lines for a maximum of 40 minutes if loading is observed. You must not cause an obstruction and ensure that there is no loading ban.”
On parking, I checked the kerb for markings indicating a parking restriction and did not see double yellow kerb markings. I also checked the walls and signs for any loading restrictions – there were none. I stopped and parked considerately and was not causing an obstruction. I unloaded the parcel to the shop, and returned within 7 minutes.
I returned to my car to find a PCN had been issued on the grounds that a loading ban was in force. However, I believe that the road markings were unclear, and did not adequately communicate this – as can be seen in Image 1 & 3, the road markings have rubbed off the kerb and are only partially visible on the paving next to the kerb. Arriving at 19:00, after sunset, it was difficult to see these markings, and no street signs were present to advise of any loading restriction.
Please see attached images to show the difficulty of seeing the road markings (Image 1 & 3) and lack of signage (Image 2).
2. The penalty charge notice has not signed by the civil enforcement officer.
Images: https://www.dropbox.com/t/BIWhmiUZWvKz9y3l
Notice of Rejection: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gn3hzzz7ynhdrqhby35fn/Response-to-Challenge-Redacted.pdf?rlkey=e0rnes0uvng4mgvoiaegvzewh&dl=0
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Hello all. Deadline for submission of an informal challenge is tomorrow. Any glaring errors / technical arguments which you can see would be greatly aprecaited.
Thanks.
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Thanks Incandescent, I thought that might be the case, but worth checking.
If any others can see any technical errors in the ticket, I would be most grateful.
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The kerb blips are clear enough, I think, for an adjudicator to decide against you if this is your appeal argument, (worn out markings).
There is no onsite / nearby public parking.
Right next to where you parked is a parking bay allowing one to park for one hour.
At the moment I see no credible appeal argument, but others may suggest a 'technical' appeal based on council mismanagement of the enforcement process. There may be a fatal error in the PCN too, although I can't see one.
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Hello all.
I am hoping for some advice. I was given a PCN with the code '02
Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force'.
I parked on the double yellow lines, to drop two large parcels into M&S. There is no onsite / nearby public parking. I left my car, with hazards on, on a double yellow line. I parked on the double yellows, checked for a sign for restrictions and went to drop the two large parcels off.
I thought that this would fit in the 20 min loading/unloading permitted. I was out of the car for approx 7 mins.
I returned to see a PCN on my car.
On looiking, there a marked double yellow kerb markings. However, I did not notice these are when I looked, as the markings have actually rubbed off the kerb (but are on the paving stones behind). Obviously hindsight is always 20:20.
Anyway, I was wondering if this would suffice grounds for appeal? I have checked the back of the PCN and cannot see any errors or omissions, but would be grateful for a second check from any of the experts on the forum.
Thank you all.
GSV: https://maps.app.goo.gl/y4khtqmDxgA9b7C59
PCN and images from PCN: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/bqs3179lk25fmh2ncir4t/AL-cDBP3OCf1Xl84nIypJ_o?rlkey=yqn5y04d69veiffyxqbd8kflo&st=mkse3uvc&dl=0