Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Shushu93 on January 08, 2025, 05:23:46 pm

Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 24, 2025, 12:52:19 pm
If the appeal is rejected then we move on to POPLA. As the NtK is not PoFA compliant and the drivers identity is unknown, POPLA will most likely be successful.

However, we are dealing with a supposedly independent organisation. However, they are a private company and their funding comes from the operators who have to pay for the assessment. This means that it may depend on which POPLA assessor reviews your appeal. It could be one of the morons they employ or it could even be the tea boy. We don't know.

However, if the POPLA appeal were not successful, the decision is not binding on you. There would be a remote possibility that they would try to litigate over the alleged debt but it would never get as far as a hearing for two reasons. First is that they would have no hope in court which is the only truly independent dispute resolution service  and secondly, because of the first reason, they would eventually discontinue once they realise that you are not low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree who I going to pay pay them out of ignorance and fear.

One step at a time. No one who is here receiving advice and following it pays a penny to Horizon.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: DWMB2 on January 24, 2025, 12:03:01 pm
So what will happen if it get denied? My partner would like to know
If they reject, you should be provided with a POPLA code, where a more thorough appeal will be submitted. If they do deny, my money would be on them withdrawing when they see your POPLA appeal that we'll support you to write. If they don't, it'll cost them £35 for a POPLA assessor to cancel the ticket for you.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 24, 2025, 11:57:02 am
Ok thank you! I have sent the appeal. It says the PCN is now on hold. So what will happen if it get denied? My partner would like to know
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 24, 2025, 11:44:04 am
It really is not important which option of Keeper you select at this stage. The Keeper, whether DVLA or not or Hirer cannot be liable for the PCN. Only the driver can be liable and are you going tell them that the Keeper was the driver when there is no legal obligation to do so?
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 23, 2025, 07:49:31 pm
I was the keeper but not yet for the DVLA as to my understanding they got our details a bit later although we did everything we could online as soon as we got the car (20/07) so maybe should I select Keeper (not DVLA)?
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 23, 2025, 07:04:14 pm
Ill select the option "DVLA keeper"?
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 23, 2025, 06:18:09 pm
You don't amend the appeal. Leave it all in. You are not appealing as the driver. So, you are one of the other three options. Were you the Keeper at the time of the alleged contravention? If so, then that is the option you choose.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 23, 2025, 06:02:05 pm
Do I leave this as 'DVLA keeper'?

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Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 23, 2025, 05:58:38 pm
Roger! Do I include this last statement too or what this just between us?
Horizon have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: DWMB2 on January 23, 2025, 05:57:17 pm
Quote
If not the DVLA, then who?
"the previous owner" according to their email.

If they're providing the opportunity to appeal, then take it using b789's suggestion above.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 23, 2025, 05:53:33 pm
So, let's get this straight.

Quote
The incomplete information supplied to us by a third party...

Horizon are claiming that they received the Keepers address from someone, not the DVLA. If not the DVLA, then who?

They are exposing their intellectual malnourishment with that response. Anyway, their NtK is not PoFA compliant.

As you can now appeal again, just send the following as the Keeper. Do not edit or add anything to it:

Easy one to defeat... as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient.

Specifically:

1. The wording on the back of your NtK incorrectly states: "If after 28 days we have not received full payment..." This is not compliant with PoFA 9(2)(f), which requires specific wording to inform the Keeper of their liability conditions.

2. You have reissued the NtK after a complaint, making it impossible for you to meet the strict PoFA deadlines for Keeper liability.

There will be no admission as to who was driving, and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Horizon has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable, which you have failed to establish.

Horizon have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 23, 2025, 05:15:27 pm
More pics

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 23, 2025, 05:14:27 pm
They have now also replied to the email (see attached pictures)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 23, 2025, 05:00:10 pm
Please show the whole NtK, front and back, redacting only your personal details, the PCN number and the VRM. Leave everything else showing.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 23, 2025, 04:29:51 pm
We just received the letter! Will it be easier to contest (appeal) the way the letter is written? Or is it worth waiting for their reply to the complaint?



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Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 22, 2025, 02:38:48 am
Just calm down and be patient! If you’re contemplating paying because of the “mugs discount” then please let us know so that we don’t waste our time and effort whilst you become a part of the problem by funding the scammers.

Only low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay a Horizon invoice because anyone receiving advice here, and follows the advice, doesn’t pay a penny to them.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 21, 2025, 11:23:25 pm
I am just surprised on Horizon parking website it now give the error of 'access denied' when I input the details whilst before it would show me the PCN details with pictures ecc
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: DWMB2 on January 21, 2025, 11:12:56 pm
It won't show up on the government website, it's an invoice from a private company.

Quote
How do I check to know if it has been cancelled?
By waiting for a response! The email you sent them said you expected them to take action within 14 days, you can't then be surprised to not have received a response after just 6 days.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 21, 2025, 11:03:50 pm
I have just checked on their website and when I enter the PCN number (both 'old' and 'new' PCN number) it says 'access denied'. On the GOV website 'driving license details' it says 'you do not have any penalties or disqualification' but I don't know if it would appear there as it is a private company PCN. How do I check to know if it has been cancelled? 

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Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: DWMB2 on January 21, 2025, 10:42:05 pm
The fact that you have not received a reply 4 working days after sending an email is not unusual. You certainly shouldn't call them.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 21, 2025, 10:28:46 pm
Hey! I sent the reply to the complaint on the 15/01. I am yet to receive a reply and also the new PCN have not arrived yet?! Is this normal? They claim they send things with Royal Mail first class which should be delivered within 3 days...? Should I give them a call? I think my partner would be happy to pay the reduced fine. Even better if we receive it within 14 aus and can pay further discounted amount
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 15, 2025, 01:34:53 pm
You could SAR them. It may reveal something but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 15, 2025, 01:24:02 pm
Should I add a request for DSAR to see where they got the address from?
I also now have a close up of the parking sign. Not sure it was exactly the same when we parked there as it was such a long time ago! I have attached it if it can be of any help. Also literally nowhere on littledown centre website mention a private parking within their parking area :(


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Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 15, 2025, 11:21:24 am
So, Horizon are not merely being mendacious but outright lying. I would send them the following response:

Quote
Subject: Formal Complaint and Data Breach Notice Regarding Parking Charge Notice (PCN)

PCN Reference: [Original PCN Number]
New PCN Reference: [New PCN Number]

Dear Mr Middleton,

I write to express my outrage at Horizon Parking's handling of the above-referenced Parking Charge Notice (PCN). Your actions demonstrate a blatant disregard for your legal obligations and a clear attempt to cover up your procedural failings.

Your recent response to my complaint is both misleading and dishonest. I am formally demanding an immediate cancellation of this PCN and compensation for the misuse of my personal data, in breach of the UK General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR). I will be making formal complaints to the British Parking Association (BPA), the DVLA, and the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) if this matter is not rectified without delay.

1. Horizon Parking’s False Claim Regarding My Address

You have falsely claimed that the Registered Keeper (me) provided you with an incomplete address. This is an outright lie. As the Registered Keeper, I certainly did not provide you with any address information. Your claim is not merely mendacious but outright untruthful, and it is clear evidence of Horizon Parking's attempts to cover up its own procedural failures.

The DVLA holds my full and correct address, including both the flat number and building number, and your failure to correctly use that information is entirely your responsibility. I have written confirmation from the DVLA that my details were provided accurately. The addressing error that caused significant delays and confusion is entirely Horizon Parking's fault. Your refusal to admit this error is disgraceful and shows a deliberate attempt to shift blame.

I demand that you:

• Acknowledge that the addressing error was caused by Horizon Parking’s failure to properly handle DVLA-provided data.

• Confirm that the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) was sent to the incorrect address due to your error.

Your failure to accurately use data obtained from the DVLA is a serious breach of both the BPA Code of Practice and the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).

2. Unlawful Issuance of a New PCN Reference

Your decision to issue a new PCN reference is a blatant abuse of process and entirely without legal basis. Any reissuance of the NtK must retain the original PCN reference number. Your actions indicate an attempt to reset the statutory timeline to hide your previous failures to comply with PoFA.

I demand a full explanation for:

• Why a new PCN reference has been issued.

• Why the original PCN reference was not retained in any further correspondence.

This kind of procedural abuse is unacceptable and will form part of my formal complaints to the BPA and DVLA.

3. Misuse of My Personal Data – GDPR Breach

Your failure to use my correct address constitutes a breach of Article 5 of the UK GDPR, which requires personal data to be accurate and up to date. Your misuse of my data has caused significant distress and inconvenience.

I hereby demand compensation of £200 for this GDPR breach, covering the time, effort, and distress caused by your procedural failings.

If this matter is not resolved to my satisfaction, I will report Horizon Parking to the ICO for mishandling my personal data and I retain my right to sue for the compensation under the Data Protection Act 2018 should you not make payment.

4. Requirement for Immediate Resolution

I expect the following actions within 14 days:

• Immediate cancellation of this PCN.

• A written apology acknowledging Horizon Parking’s procedural errors and false statements.

• Confirmation that my personal data has been rectified and the incorrect address erased.

• A compensation offer for the GDPR breach.

Failure to provide a full and satisfactory response will result in immediate escalation to the BPA, DVLA, and ICO. I will not tolerate further attempts to shirk responsibility or engage in procedural abuse.

Yours sincerely

[Your Full Name]
[Your Address]
[Your Contact Information]
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 15, 2025, 09:27:07 am
Yes I confirm it is a private car that we bought (not company car, not hired). From what I remember we had to wait for the new logbook from the seller. We filled in everything online as soon as we got the car. But the address on the old logbook was the same and full and correct. When I spoke with horizon I asked to which address the first 2 letters where sent and they said my address so no, they didn't send it to the old keeper. Who are they referring to when they say they got the address from the keeper? How is this possible?
Find attached picture for reference

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Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 15, 2025, 08:31:38 am
So, just to get all this correct... It's not a leased/hired car. You (as in the 'royal you' and your partner) purchased the car at the beginning of July and the alleged parking contravention occurred at the end of July. Do you remember on what date you updated the V5C with the new address? You can enter your VRM on this page and it will tell you: https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dvla

It matters not one iota who the "owner" is. Is there a possibility that at the time of the alleged contravention, the V5C had not yet been update with the new Keepers details (your partner)? Is there a possibility that the original NtK went to the previous Keeper?
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 15, 2025, 05:24:35 am
Right?!? It just make absolutely no sense! So how would they have gotten the address, calling the registered keeper? It is true that we bought that car at the beginning of July and this happened on the 31/07 so unless they mean the previous owner? This is my partner's car. I'm dealing with this for him. I have his consent. The complaint email I sent to them is in my partner name, using all of his details. They surely have NEVER contacted them asking for an address otherwise w é would have known about this parking charge prior receiving it?? I can't make my mind around this. It makes no sense! Should I reply something?
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 15, 2025, 04:18:29 am
Now it’s even more confusing because that email suggests that the Registered Keeper (RK) has tried to transfer liability for the charge to you, as the driver or “owner” (seriously?).

Who is the RK of the vehicle? What is your relationship to the vehicle?

They claim that the RK “advised” them that you were the “owner” of the vehicle at the time. What does that even mean? What does vehicle “ownership” have to do with the price of eggs in China?
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 14, 2025, 05:14:33 pm
I received this reply just now (see attached pictures). I can try and get a better picture tomorrow (I asked a friend).

https://horizonparking.co.uk/complaints-procedure/

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 14, 2025, 12:02:34 pm
Can that sign be shown in more detail? Is it contemporaneous?
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 14, 2025, 11:37:08 am
Got pictures of the only sign that states it is a private parking. What do you think of it?
Nowhere online for the littledown centre it states there is a private parking area.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 13, 2025, 12:30:47 pm
Don't worry about it. They have acknowledged receipt of it. Just like sending something recorded delivery, you have no idea who actually signed for it or how it is handled after receipt.

You've fulfilled your obligation. The auto-reply you've received is a valid acknowledgment that Horizon Parking has received your communication. This is important because it provides a timestamped acknowledgment of receipt, confirming that your email has reached their system.

A delivery receipt or read receipt from an email can be used as evidence that the document was received, but it is not conclusive proof of service. Courts have ruled that service is valid once the document is delivered to the recipient’s server, regardless of whether the recipient actually reads the email.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 13, 2025, 11:50:51 am
Email sent and this is what I automatically received, just as when I sent the email to admin team! They will most probably not reply (this is why I've been told on the phone last time I spoke to them)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 13, 2025, 01:44:42 am
Just send it as is. Don’t try and overthink this.

Why would you want to pay them a penny? Why do you think you have to provide proof of anything?

Just because some unregulated private parking company sends you a speculative invoice that you are somehow in debt to them? The burden of proof is on them,  ot you. Stop trying to do their job for them.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 12, 2025, 09:51:38 pm
Will it be worth adding that when I contacted Horizon explaining the situation, at no point at all I have been offered the chance to pay the initial amount of the NtK nor understanding words for the issue were said and no one from customer service tried to speak through to find a solution. I would also like to add the private parking sign was not clear but I currently don't have proof of it
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 12, 2025, 02:32:23 pm
We know that they are not PoFA compliant, even when they say they are. Just send that as is and let's see how they respond.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 12, 2025, 12:49:47 pm
That's great, thank you very much. At the phone they told me that they are NOT POFA complaint (when I mentioned the original/first notice being sent late after they told me when they supposedly sent it). Will this still be ok to send or does it need to be rectified? They are only BPA
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 12, 2025, 12:44:05 pm
Makes sense. You should send the following as a formal complaint and also as a data rectification notice to Horizon Parking. You can use their complaints webpage (https://horizonparking.co.uk/i-want-to-make-a-formal-complaint/) but do not use the text box. Simply put "see attached PDF file" and you upload the complaint as a PDF.

Quote
Subject: Formal Complaint and Data Rectification Notice Regarding Parking Charge Notice (PCN)

PCN Reference: [Insert Reference Number]
Date of Issue: 31/07/2024

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally complain about the handling of the above-referenced Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued by Horizon Parking. This complaint also serves as a Data Rectification Notice under Article 16 of the UK General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR).

I outline my concerns below:

1. Incorrect Address on the Notice to Keeper (NtK)

I have reason to believe that the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) was sent to an incomplete address, omitting the building number. As a result, I never received the NtK or any reminder notices. I only became aware of this parking charge upon finding a 'final reminder' letter by chance on the floor at the entrance to my building on 12/12/24.

My address is in a block of flats where the flat number (5) and the building number (5) often cause confusion. Horizon Parking appears to have used the flat number as the house number, which caused the letter to be misdelivered. The letter was not posted through my door but thrown on the floor in a communal area. The postman frequently confuses these two numbers, and we regularly receive incorrect deliveries as a result.

The DVLA holds my full and correct address, including both flat and building numbers. I have a letter from the DVLA confirming this. Horizon Parking’s failure to use the correct address when obtaining my details from the DVLA is a significant procedural error and breaches the requirements under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), which mandates that the Notice to Keeper must be properly served to the registered keeper.

2. Non-Compliance with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)

The alleged contravention occurred on 21/07/2024, and the only notification I have received is a Final Reminder dated 09/12/2024, which I discovered by chance. I never received the original Notice to Keeper (NtK), and I suspect that it was not compliant with PoFA requirements.

Under PoFA, the Notice to Keeper must be properly served within 14 days of the alleged contravention, and it must contain specific wording to hold the registered keeper liable if the driver is not identified. I request that you provide a copy of the original NtK and confirm whether you are relying on PoFA to hold me liable as the registered keeper.

If the NtK does not comply with PoFA, then you cannot hold me liable as the keeper.

3. Denial of Fair Opportunity to Appeal

After discovering the final reminder letter on 12/12/24, I immediately sent an email to Horizon Parking explaining the situation and requesting an appeal. Despite this, your customer service team advised that my email would not be considered as an appeal. This is wholly unreasonable, especially given the addressing error that caused the Notice to Keeper to be undelivered.

It is unacceptable to deny me the opportunity to appeal due to your own procedural failures in addressing correspondence.

4. Unfair Escalation to Debt Collection

Your decision to involve a debt recovery agency (DRA) is unnecessary, inappropriate, and indicative of a strategy aimed at harassment rather than resolution. Debt recovery agents are not a party to any alleged contract, and their letters carry no legal weight.

I categorically reject any further contact from debt recovery agents. Engaging a DRA is a tactic that is widely recognised as exploitative, especially when procedural errors such as misaddressing correspondence are entirely your fault. I will not respond to any DRA, and I consider any further involvement of such agencies as evidence of Horizon Parking's unwillingness to handle this matter reasonably and fairly.

I warn you that continued reliance on a DRA, especially in light of your procedural failures, will strengthen my position should this matter escalate to a formal complaint with the British Parking Association (BPA), the DVLA, and the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO). You are advised to desist from involving third-party agents and instead engage directly with me to resolve this matter.

Furthermore, pursuing debt collection in these circumstances is both unreasonable and in contravention of your obligations under your trade association's Code of Practice. I expect this complaint to be handled by Horizon Parking and not outsourced to any further third parties.

5. Data Rectification Notice (GDPR Article 16)

I hereby require that you:

1. Update your records with my correct address, as held by the DVLA. My correct address includes both my flat number and the building number.

2. Erase the incorrect address from your system to ensure compliance with the UK GDPR.

I require that this Data Rectification Notice be brought to the attention of your Data Protection Officer (DPO) and that you confirm in writing when the requested rectification has been implemented. Please ensure that your DPO handles this request in accordance with GDPR requirements.

As this constitutes a formal data rectification request under GDPR, you are legally required to respond and confirm that your records have been corrected and that the inaccurate data has been erased.

6. Requirement for Resolution

In light of the significant procedural errors and non-compliance issues outlined above, I require that you:

Cancel this Parking Charge Notice immediately.

Confirm that your records have been updated with the correct address and that the incorrect address has been erased.

Provide a copy of the original NtK, including confirmation of whether you are relying on PoFA to pursue this charge.

If this matter is not satisfactorily resolved, I will escalate my complaint to the British Parking Association (BPA), the DVLA, and the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) for breaches of GDPR and unfair handling of my personal data.

I trust that you will handle this matter fairly and in accordance with your obligations under the relevant regulations.

Yours sincerely,

[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[Your Contact Information]
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 12, 2025, 12:15:55 pm
I assume they put the same address as in the letter we *have* received (by luck I must now say! the final reminder that I attached in the first message).
So we are in a block of flats, flat 5 and 5 is also the building number. The flat number is there but not the building number. Postman always confuses those 2 and we often get buzzed from all sorts of deliveries (including food deliveries!) as they confuse the flat number with the house number. So we have been lucky to have received the final reminder really. And this would explain why the letter was on the entrance of the building, thrown on the floor and *not* posted through our door. They guessed 5 was the building number and didn't know what the flat number would be. I have a letter from DVLA showing both flat and house number so it was not us providing incorrect details to DVLA (from what I understand horizon parking got our address from DVLA).
Does it make sense? See attached picture

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 12, 2025, 12:06:15 pm
If you didn't receive the first notice, how do you know the road house number is missing?

If you're assuming that the address on the NtK is incomplete, please confirm precisely what they omitted or got wrong. Was it the house number or the flat number?

Is the address correct on the Debt Recovery Agent (DRA) letter?

I need this information in order to compose a suitable formal complaint to Horizon for you.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 12, 2025, 11:32:53 am
I showed the reminder because is the only thing I received! I have received nothing before that letter!
Also I think I might know why we haven't received the first 2 letters...the road number is missing! Could this be another point of appeal (when the right time comes? They didn't put the full address. DVLA does have the full address with road and flat number correct.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 12, 2025, 11:14:31 am
Unfortunately, yes, you have inadvertently thrown away the easiest point of appeal. In future, always refer to the driver in the third person. Use "The driver did this or that", not "I did this or that".

Never mind, you are where you are.

What you showed us is the reminder, not the original Notice to Keeper (NtK). Not that it matters now.

For now, you must ignore all the useless debt collector letters. They are powerless to do anything. They are not a party to the contract that the driver allegedly breached. You can safely ignore them. Never, ever, respond to or communicate with a useless debt collector. you can use their letters as emergency toilet paper.

What you are now waiting for is a Letter of Claim (LoC) which will most likely come from DCB Legal (not their debt collector arm DCBL). When you receive it, let us know.

It will eventually be followed by an N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC. This must be responded to and we will advise accordingly when that happens. Once the claim is defended, they will, in due course, discontinue as long as you follow our advice.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 12, 2025, 11:04:07 am
I sent an email in name of my husband (his name was on the letter we received). I just realised I wrote 'I parked' so this gives it out as who the driver was I guess?
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 12, 2025, 10:37:55 am
The PCN is in the Keepers name. When you appealed, did you do so in the Keepers name? Who appealed? Was the drivers identity revealed when you appealed?

We need to know EXACTLY who appealed and what they put in that appeal. PoFA, or lack of it, is only useful if the drivers identity has not been revealed. If the drivers identity has been revealed, then PoFA is irrelevant.

Tell your husband that there is nothing to worry about. Even if this goes as far as a claim for debt in the county court, they will discontinue before it ever gets as far as a hearing.

They are relying on the recipient of the PCN being low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and paying up out of fear and ignorance.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 12, 2025, 09:48:34 am
Hello, thank you for your reply! Very useful! I am dealing with this but the car is under my partner's name and he is very worried. We are good people that always pay things that are to be paid! Should I try anyway to do something regarding Their Notice to Keeper (NtK) not being PoFA compliant? I did say it wasn't fair they sent the letters so late as the breach of contract happened at the end of July but they told me they chose not to be POFA complaint so they have up to 7 months to send the parking charge. If they told me they are not POFA compliant, will the point of NtK still be valid? Will it be a good move to contact POPLA now explaining the situation? I feel it for my partner. I'm taking care of this but if it goes wrong any negative note will be under his name as a driver.
Title: Re: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: b789 on January 08, 2025, 05:43:56 pm
Welcome.First things first... DO NOT communicate with a debt collector. Never, ever, ever and I stress... NEVER EVER communicate with useless debt collector. You should not have contacted them. They are powerless and not a party to the contract allegedly breached by the driver. Use their letters as emergency toilet paper.

They rely on you being low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and paying up out of ignorance and fear of the process. Ignore them.

It is a pity you didn't come here before you appealed to Horizon. Their Notice to Keeper (NtK) is never PoFA compliant which means that they cannot hold the Keeper liable if the drivers identity is unknown. They only way they could know the drivers identity is if the Keeper blabs it to them, inadvertently or otherwise.

As it is too late to appeal, you must now continue to ignore all the debt collector letters and wait and see if/when they issue a Letter of Claim (LoC) and follow that up with an actual N1SDT Claim form from the CNBC. They will usually use a bulk litigator of choice.

We do not need to see or know about all the useless debt collector letters but please show us the LoC and the Claim Form if/when they arrive. We will assist you in defending any claim. In the vast majority of cases they will eventually discontinue. In some, the claim will be struck out and of the few that make it to a hearing, are won.
Title: Horizon Parking parking charge in Littledown July 2024. Parking charge letters not received
Post by: Shushu93 on January 08, 2025, 05:23:46 pm
Hello everyone, I really hope somebody can help us! Me and my partner went to littledown for a walk back at the end of July. Our baby was then 7 months old. We looked for a parking space and parked. We unloaded the pram and walked away just few meters before seeing the sign of the private parking. My husband then went back and moved the car to the free parking area. We parked there for a total of 11 minutes. We didn't think anything of it as we moved the car quickly (we though it was even less than 11 minutes). On the 12/12/23 I found a letter on the floor upon entering our block of flat. The letter was on the floor by the main entrance of the building. By chance I saw it had my husband name and brought it home only to find out it was a 'final reminder' of the parking charge, for a total of £95. I have tried to appeal it online but of course it was too late. I called the company and they said there was nothing we could do about it other than sending an email to admin team explaining the situation (we know now they have sent 2 previous letter but we have NOT received those!). I have sent an email the very same day (12/12/23) and we did not pay, waiting for their reply. Today we got a letter from the Debt company asking us to make a payment of £160 following the original parking charge. I have called the company and they said there is nothing we can do other than waiting for the case to go forward and go to small court claims. Do you have any advice? I really don't know what to do but it feels extremely unfair that they wouldn't even consider the email I sent (I spoke with customer service today and they told me they won't take that as an appeal and it is mostly likely that nobody will ever reply). Please help! I can not find the actual letter now but I do have a picture of it.
Thank you for any advice, Simo

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