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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: anish1411 on August 29, 2023, 09:28:59 am

Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on October 27, 2023, 01:28:05 pm
I have now submitted a second Representation.

I have included the links sent by PM and have not clicked those links.

I will await response and keep you updated. Thanks
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: cp8759 on October 26, 2023, 10:17:42 pm
There is no typo, the adjudicator has given the council 4 weeks to respond. That being the case, I suggest you make a representation now to protect your position.

I will PM you some links to put in the representation, they will redirect to here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qzv2oCy5ldrsZU_2GUZdrP9yMU2fELmh/view?usp=drive_link) and here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tMbwa26GHgp56B7IUatsn5JXZu89NQF0/view?usp=drive_link) but if you give them the links I'll PM you, we can use the click count to confirm whether they've looked at them or not (obviously do not click on the links I PM you as we want the click count to remain at zero). If they don't click on them, we can then prove they've failed to consider all of the evidence. If they say in the rejection that they've considered all the evidence, we've got them for lying as well.

Dear London Borough of Redbridge,

I rely on my informal representations as my formal representations. I further refer you to the documents at LINK1 and LINK2.

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on October 26, 2023, 08:10:40 pm
@John U.K. Yes perhaps a typo in the case number, I just copied the number from @cp8759 's comment.

Deadline is looming for this one, and double payment will be due soon!
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: John U.K. on October 26, 2023, 08:10:19 am
Case 2230349025 does not appear in the Register. Perhaps a typo in the case no.?
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on October 26, 2023, 07:39:43 am
Quote
Case 2230349025 is due to be heard today

Thank you. Wondering what the outcome of this case was and how I should proceed.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: cp8759 on October 17, 2023, 12:03:35 am
Case 2230349025 is due to be heard today on very similar grounds, I would suggest we wait for the outcome of that before making representations. We should know the outcome within a couple of days at most.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: H C Andersen on October 15, 2023, 02:04:11 pm
At present, this is the only evidence of the scope of footway parking in the road, and it is not favourable to you for the reason I've highlighted. It's also not an authorised variant of the sign, but hey, what the hell!

None of the other evidence confirms any alternative extent of footway parking.

And these are the only two items i.e. the sign in situ and the council's response. Neither states that footway parking was allowed at the time of the contravention.

On this basis, I do not think you would succeed at adjudication.

IMO, what's left is to try and muddy the waters as regards the authority's consideration of any reps.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on October 15, 2023, 09:39:11 am
One point made by an earlier commenter:

Quote
The sign referred to states:
No waiting Mon-Sat 8.30am - 6.30 pm.

An additional sign includes the 2-wheel footway parking symbol with the words:
At other times and Sunday.

The PCN was issued at 2.30pm on Saturday 26 Aug.

Wondering what impact this might have if this goes to tribunal.

Please see previous comment for full copy of NtO.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on October 14, 2023, 05:58:34 pm
@cp8759 @John U.K.

Here's an imgur link to the NtO: https://imgur.com/a/DY59vBo (https://imgur.com/a/DY59vBo)

Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: cp8759 on October 14, 2023, 01:25:20 am
@anish1411 as John says, post up the NTO please.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: John U.K. on October 12, 2023, 08:37:06 pm
Please post up all sides of the NtO
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on October 12, 2023, 07:54:55 pm
Dear cp8759 and others,

I have now received the Notice to Owner for this PCN.

Grateful for your guidance on what to do from now.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on September 26, 2023, 12:48:10 pm
For later:


Thank you, I will await the Notice to Owner and then post again for further instruction.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: cp8759 on September 26, 2023, 10:16:37 am
For later:

EIR response (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1Ih4tqYxgKcOEsfTzsjhUPYFTIrXS__4n).
RedbridgeLife Spring 2014 (footway parking advert) (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1uphrREb7OU60Vwo-gem-iEfTK_dNGuWr).
Area 7 Approval (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1s1WPwz1HsUO7fcN9jOKxOnpYJY0bYvk3).
Area 7 - Wards Rd (works completion) (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1HV_leQHGtyjym3Frk02BtE7lIBlUfcn3).
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on September 19, 2023, 08:37:02 am
Wait for the Notice to Owner, as long as you challenge it within 14 days of the date of issue the council will almost invariably reoffer the discount even if they reject (because they want to give you an incentive not to appeal to the tribunal).

I'm due to get an FOI response about the footway parking resolution on or before 28 September.

Thanks, I will wait for the Notice to Owner and then will post again here for further instruction.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: cp8759 on September 18, 2023, 12:41:34 am
Wait for the Notice to Owner, as long as you challenge it within 14 days of the date of issue the council will almost invariably reoffer the discount even if they reject (because they want to give you an incentive not to appeal to the tribunal).

I'm due to get an FOI response about the footway parking resolution on or before 28 September.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: H C Andersen on September 17, 2023, 03:24:11 pm
The sign referred to states:
No waiting Mon-Sat 8.30am - 6.30 pm.

An additional sign includes the 2-wheel footway parking symbol with the words:
At other times and Sunday.

The PCN was issued at 2.30pm on Saturday 26 Aug.

According to that sign, footway parking was not permitted when the contravention occurred.

Or is there a different sign elsewhere?

Even the sign is odd(apart from thinking that 'other times' doesn't include Sundays) which might indicate confusion on the part of the council which could reveal itself later in the form of a different or no resolution e.g. why only allow footway parking outside the 'no waiting' period because this denies drivers the ability to park there when engaged in waiting-exempt activities such as collecting etc? 

But IMO, as it stands the contravention occurred. 
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: John U.K. on September 17, 2023, 12:21:38 pm
They have not demonstrated that they considered the points made in post reply#7.
You have a few days before the full paymenmt kicks in, why not wait to see if the experts think you have a good chance of winning at tribunal?
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on September 17, 2023, 11:39:43 am
About to pay this penalty, will wait a few minutes in case anyone here thinks they might help me take this further! TIA
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on September 16, 2023, 10:58:17 am
I'm not sure I used that exact text, I can't remember and can't find how to check. I do know I included a GSV link in my appeal.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: John U.K. on September 16, 2023, 10:49:30 am
Please post up the rejection.
Did you send the exact text as in post reply#7?
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on September 16, 2023, 10:48:02 am
Dear All,

I received a rejection of this appeal from Redbridge Council. Wondering whether to proceed to the tribunal stage, what the chances of successful appeal are.

From all your previous responses, it would seem this ticket should not have been issued, so may be worth proceeding to tribunal stage? But the fear of having to pay the full charge looms over me.

Grateful for your guidance on how to proceed.

EDIT: Rejection Letter Image

(https://imgur.com/a/k9qUAwp)
https://imgur.com/a/k9qUAwp
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: Incandescent on August 29, 2023, 11:56:36 pm
For me, the sign I posted a GSV link to applies to the yellow line, so the parking off-carriageway sign applies until the yellow line stops.
The yellow line is in place where the OP parked and then stops at the double yellow around the junction: -
https://goo.gl/maps/gvx9hfj5iw1gSKsLA

There's also one on the other side of the street too: -
https://goo.gl/maps/7DJHrtyed9evWVoL9

I can't see how the council can win this, but no doubt with the £££ signs in their eyes, they'll try.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: cp8759 on August 29, 2023, 11:33:21 pm
Tick "The alleged contravention did not occur", here's some draft text:

Dear London Borough of Redbridge,

The alleged contravention did not occur. Signage on this road indicates that footway parking is permitted, and as far as I have been able to establish the footway parking ban was lifted from Wards Road at some point in 2014; it follows that a contravention of this sort cannot occur on this road. The PCN must therefore be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,



The council will definitely reject, but you have good chances at the tribunal stage. I'll help you with the tribunal appeal if need be.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on August 29, 2023, 09:49:36 pm
Dear all, thanks for your input.


In response to cp859:

Quote
Is the vehicle leased / hired, or are you the registered keeper?

I am the registered keeper.

Quote
What sort of items were you collecting?

Wrapping materials for medical devices.

Quote
Were you alone?

Yes.

Quote
Where was the officer when you first saw him?

In front of the car.

Quote
In any event

Do the signs and the footway parking resolution mean I should appeal this PCN? Could you advise on how I might word the appeal? Reasons for Challenging the PCN (https://imgur.com/a/1U0qjqV)

In response to TheRookie

Quote
Bang to rights

Does this mean No contest I was in the wrong?


In response to Incandescent

Quote
PCN is a nullity

Does this mean No contest the PCN was incorrect?

Quote
There are no breaks in that yellow line

What significance does this have?

Just trying to understand the situation better, and I can't thank you all enough.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: Incandescent on August 29, 2023, 09:34:56 pm
Here is a sign on the side the OP parked.
https://goo.gl/maps/iiiLVjprWsDaQgTg7
There are no breaks in that yellow line all the way past where the OP parked so it looks as if the PCN is a nullity.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: cp8759 on August 29, 2023, 07:49:41 pm
Is the vehicle leased / hired, or are you the registered keeper?

What sort of items were you collecting?

Were you alone?

Where was the officer when you first saw him?

In any event there are footway parking signs on this road, see here: https://goo.gl/maps/T4qDRXTACGKN5SxM6

Also it appears a footway parking resolution was made at some point:

Delegated approval briefing note (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1tMbwa26GHgp56B7IUatsn5JXZu89NQF0).
List of roads (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1qzv2oCy5ldrsZU_2GUZdrP9yMU2fELmh).
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: The Rookie on August 29, 2023, 01:26:37 pm
Yup, bang to rights on parking on the footway.

No observation time required for that contravention (for what should be obvious reasons).
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on August 29, 2023, 12:20:57 pm
Thanks for your reply. Have edited the post to include images.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: Incandescent on August 29, 2023, 11:23:55 am
Any photos of the contravention at all ? ALthough not a legal requirement, most CEOs now take them to back up their PCNs.
Parking off carriageway has been an offence in London since the 70s, so pleading ignorance will get you the Bum's Rush. Difficult to see what you could appeal on at all, frankly.  If you'd stayed on the carriageway the CEO would have issued a PCN for the single line, but you'd then be able to claim the loading exemption.
Title: Redbridge, code 62 "parked with ... wheels on or over a footpath" Wards Road near Ley Street
Post by: anish1411 on August 29, 2023, 09:28:59 am
Hi all, thanks cp859 for directing me here.

I stopped outside a commercial building on Wards Road to collect some items.

I can't have been in there for more than 120 seconds.

As I was coming out I saw a parking officer in front of my vehicle.

I said "I'm here" or something to that effect. The officer looked up. Said he had already printed the ticket.

I'm not sure my vehicle was observed for a continuous 30 seconds as I was there so briefly. I also wonder if the ticket was printed after the officer saw me coming to the vehicle. Please could anyone advise if I should appeal this or if I was indeed in the wrong.

Front of PCN:

(https://i.imgur.com/fXf3PYW.jpeg)

Location: https://goo.gl/maps/HHFCoGm88xMxDPy79. I was parked half on the kerb directly outside that office building.

Thanks Again

EDIT: Photos

(https://i.imgur.com/ZDnvhYN.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/bGGvPca.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/uJliM8v.jpeg)