Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: jedeye101 on January 02, 2025, 03:58:17 pm
-
Hi, just to say my tribunal with Redbridge for this same restriction is not being contested by Redbridge so worth pushing on!
-
London Tribunals just called me saying Redbridge aren’t contesting at my tribunal so I think that means the fine will be cancelled!
Thanks for everyone’s help and advice. I have noticed now Redbridge has put signs with the direction of the restriction and not just ‘ahead’ as it was.
I was kinda looking forward to the experience of the tribunal, but maybe they’ll be another unfair fine to contest another time in my life.
-
The appointment is 12th March at 16.15
The car is registered in my wife's name so the case is in her name vs Redbridge Council. I have said I'll be making representations on her behalf as I was driving, etc.
Can you have more than one person making reps at the hearing? Or happy to swap out - but equally happy to report back and for @Hippocrates to support @Cuttsy 's case?
-
Status for everyone is that my reps were rejected also and I’ve appealed to the London Tribunals who have set a date for adjudication. Let’s see what happens! It’s my first ride!!
I hope you opted for telephone/personal hearing?
I would take up @Hippocrates kind offer in post Reply#13.
What is the date allocated?
-
Status for everyone is that my reps were rejected also and I’ve appealed to the London Tribunals who have set a date for adjudication. Let’s see what happens! It’s my first ride!!
-
Thanks John. I had intended to post a new case, this was just background as to why I was asking the OP what their outcome/status is.
@Hippocrates thanks for the info. I’ll start a new thread for specifics for my case
-
You need to take them to London Tribunals, because appeals have been won on this "term time" notice. The council will never give way on this aspect, because they can stand a few appeal losses as >95% of people just cough-up when they get the PCN, so the money rolls in.
More like 99%. I am happy to represent in this one as per the last one won a few months ago on the term time sign.
-
Hi, I got dinged in exactly the same spot 1 week later!
@Cuttsy
You need to start your own thread (one case to one thread, or we get muddled!).
Please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
and post there a brief summary of the alleged incident,
all sides of the PCN (only redact yr name & address),
a copy of your reps and their rejection,
a GSV link to the location
and
any council video/photos.
By all means include a reference to this thread.
-
You need to take them to London Tribunals, because appeals have been won on this "term time" notice. The council will never give way on this aspect, because they can stand a few appeal losses as >95% of people just cough-up when they get the PCN, so the money rolls in.
-
Hi, I got dinged in exactly the same spot 1 week later!
Where are you in the process, any success?
I made representations which has been rejected. I almost certainly will be appealing to the adjudicator. I agree with you re poor signage visibility but I suspect that will be considered not enough. My appeal is straight forward in that the sign clearly says ‘term times’ etc and my PCN was 1 hour after end of term as clearly stated on the schools website. I thought it would be a slam dunk but then they are marking their own homework at representation!
-
@Hippocrates, please find screenshots of the Redbridge Council pages towards submitting a Representation. I don't think I can add screenshots to the Representation or a PDF file which would have been useful for them to see the tree in the way of the sign.
If you meant something else for me to screenshot, please let me know.
6503 (https://i.imgur.com/SnV9B9K.png)
6504 (https://i.imgur.com/PG5Sslb.png)
6505 (https://i.imgur.com/7We2pKY.png)
6506 (https://i.imgur.com/FJexdK6.png)
6507 (https://i.imgur.com/YrVDIQg.png)
6508 (https://i.imgur.com/E9jGgYE.png)
6509 (https://i.imgur.com/WhADh78.png)
6510 (https://i.imgur.com/61czgue.png)
6511 (https://i.imgur.com/hEmGJFF.png)
6512 (https://i.imgur.com/29Rcin4.png)
6513 (https://i.imgur.com/QcNhlLC.png)
-
@Hippocrates, do you mean the webpages on the Redbridge website with the info about how to challenge a PCN?
-
Please screenshot every website page before you make a representation and hold fire until I see them.
-
You need to make clear which signs you are referring to. The ones here are of two types, (1) advance warning, and (2) the restriction signs at the street entrance.
The advance signs are not official traffic signs, and also give no indication which street(s). Best practice is to erect an sign showing the road layout with the restriction clearly marked. Signs saying "term times only" is also misleading as it assumes the passing motorist knows what these term time are !
Then also emphasise the obscuration of the signs. The council are under a duty to make restriction signs visible at all times. Here they have not done so.
-
This will be the information I reply online to the council:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The signs on the road with restrictions are not clear. I believe the PCN should be canceled for the folowing reasons:
* The sign on the left turn is obsured by tree cover and so not clearly visible
* The sign on the left turn saying 'School Streets; Restricted Access; Term time only' is not at a 'face-on' angle thus it was difficult to read in conjuction with other face-on signs
* The signs were confusing by saying 'Term Time Only'. This was the 17th December where some schools were out of term time
* There are also two sign posts on each side of the road containing 4 individual secured signs on each side; a total of 8 signs to interpret if trying to read them all. This information overload, especially on the left turn side obscured by a tree, is impossible to interpret whilst driving without clearer, simpler and uncluttered signage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would really welcome feedback if you can.
-
Thanks @John U.K. and @Incandescent for your advice and encouragement. Never done a PCN reps so I’ll draft something for forumites feedback.
-
Don't use the form - write the reps on yr word-processor, post a draft on here for comment, use the online facility to submit reps and print off a hard copy and keep any acknowledgement receipt. If insufficient room for your reps on the online form, write See Attached in box, print entire reps to a pdf and attach it to online submission.
Post your draft here, but do not miss deadlines.
Besides obscured signage, I'm fairly certain (others will confirm or not) the red signs are not approved. Use of 'term-time' is definitely not approved. Thwen the 'advance' warning sign not only uses 'term-time', but also no indication of where the school streets are other than 'ahead' - straight ahead? that mioght well encourage a motorist to turn left to avoid the school streets.
And you cannot see the definitive signs until into the turn.
-
I'll definitely post representations, so lets see if it gets rejected. Is it best to tick the second reason 'There was no contravention of an order or failure to comply with an order or failure to comply with an indication on a sign' with the details of 'tree was covering the signage'?
Would there be any other strong arguments I could include with the situation described above?
Thanks
-
Totally useless signage, (as usual !!), but the worse it is the more money they make, because most people just cough-up when they get the PCN, or pay-up when representations are rejected, (99% 0f them). So is this you too ? The only way to test the signage issue is to forego the discount option and get them in front of an adjudicator at London Tribunals.
-
I entered a pedestrian zone in term time/school time hours and received a fine.
I made a left turn from the main road to the school road but signage in that turn is, in my opinion, difficult to see and interpret whilst driving. My main defence is that there is a tree covering the sign on the left corner so obscuring the sign and sign on the opposite sign of the street also.
Probably not a clear reason but if governments don't want us to read text messages whilst driving, reading and interpreting a sign saying 'School Streets Ahead - Restricted Access - Term-time only' is difficult to do also. There is no road painting of a sign which would be more useful. The sign saying 'school streets ahead' are also all at an angle and not face on like virtually all other signs? Is this normal? This was also on the 17th Dec, when some schools are already ended. How do drivers know about term-times? Obviously my first time receiving a PCN on this street.
Please let me know the best way to contest this and what is my best reasons?
(https://i.imgur.com/07MNHEC.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ie1QJoW.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/b4kBLYp.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Te1HXx1.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iYi5QD2.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SnEDUAa.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/78ZOj9l.jpeg)