Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: HateTFL on December 31, 2024, 07:42:45 pm
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HateTFL went it alone and the case was DNC'ed.
@HateTFL I don't know why you have this strange idea that your VRM is private: your VRM is published along with your full name on the tribunal website (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_justice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_justice)). But well done for getting your £80 back.
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there is confusion on here and generally bad advice
that's a very sweeping statement and totally incorrect. you seem to already know better so I wonder why you came here for advice??
Therefore the advice should be to always pay and then get the money back
IF you win with TFL.
Try that with any other authority and then come back and let us know how you get on.
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If the appeal is successful and tfl do not pay I will send them a small claim for the monies
No you won't or they'll mop the floor with you, there is a specific mechanism to enforce the refund but in practice it's never been needed, they always abide by the tribunal judgments.
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@HateTFL please don't appeal yet, I'm going to drop you a pm.
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It isn't, it might turn out to be so for TfL some of the time but not for any other enforcement authority in London.
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No I am grateful to this community - I wanted to clarify the advice that is on thsi forum which is not to pay and appeal - In my view you should always pay and then appeal as its a free option.
I could have not paid and appealed and then had to pay 160
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Let's just wait and see what happens shall we rather than getting a bit excited and stirring the pond up.
I think it extremely unlikely that TfL would not follow the adjudicator's decision as they are legally bound by it.
You are forgetting we are here because you stopped where you shouldn't.
If there was a genuine breakdown such that you could not safely proceed the attendance of the breakdown truck would have helped an exemption argument.
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Yes, if you win you will be refunded. It used to be the case that for appeals made during the discount period TfL would settle for 50% if they won but they don't have to and I don't know their current habit. More likely if you lose that you will have to pay the other 50% but we will find out later.
Thank you this is also my understanding which shows there is confusion on here and generally bad advice
From this appeal and there are many on tribunal (Case reference 2210379431) - Therefore the advice should be to always pay and then get the money back
The Enforcement Authority has informed me that they will not contest your appeal against the Penalty Charge Notice(s) mentioned above.
The Chief Adjudicator has therefore allowed your appeal without considering your evidence or any details of the case. You are not liable for any further charge(s) and, where appropriate, any amounts already paid will be refunded by the Enforcement Authority.
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If the appeal is successful and tfl do not pay I will send them a small claim for the monies
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Yes, if you win you will be refunded. It used to be the case that for appeals made during the discount period TfL would settle for 50% if they won but they don't have to and I don't know their current habit. More likely if you lose that you will have to pay the other 50% but we will find out later.
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you're hoping for a refund on an appeal that they will never accept. now they have your money it's good night Vienna.
please send your appeal and then come back to let us know how you got on.
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On the back of the last response I made the payment
And I am still going to lodge the appeal which if I win will cause the penalty to be reimbursed
There seems to be misinformation on this site regarding paying the penalty and then appealing (which from what I can see is allowed) versus securing the discounted rate
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The penalty charge is £160, not £80.
The discount sum is a one-off and time-limited(as regards legislation) offer to motorists. TfL are not obliged to re-offer the discount.
What you're implying is that any motorist should be able to exhaust the enforcement and appeals processes at no financial cost to them. As you can imagine, this would encourage '000000s of potentially frivolous appeals and clog the system.
Without the video- which is their primary evidence and a key element in your defence- we and you are blind.
..but not them.
Get hold of the video pl.
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Thank you - Are you absolutely sure?
Does it mean that appealing always means doubling the fine? This seems unfair.
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Should I pay the penalty now which is still £80 and then appeal it?
As said earlier, paying closes the case and you may not then appeal.
The one exception is where a car has been towed, and you have to pay for release from the pound - then you may appeal.
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Hi I did not request the video : ( - I should have done that
I will make sure that uploads are done via the reccoemdnation
Should I pay the penalty now which is still £80 and then appeal it?
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Pl read the READ THIS FIRST guide at the top of the forum main page.
Host docs and videos externally.
Where's TfL's video?
According to the NOR the discount would expire on 30 Dec.
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Does paying a penalty stop the appeal? If the appeal is decided in my favour then they would have to refund that.
I saw a few cases where the appeal inspector states that a refund would be given if penalty had been paid
Its still showing as £80 and I definitely cannot afford 160 which makes me nervous
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Hi thanks so much - Here it is - Should I pay the fine and then appeal to the tribual ?
Paying the penalty closes the case!
As far as I can see, you've missed the re-offered (if the discount was on hold) discount (by my calculation that expired at midnight last night - what is the PCN's online status?) so you have nothing to lose by appealing further.
Don't pay and wait for ther experts' views is my advice - but do not miss deadlines.
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Hi thanks so much - Here it is - Should I pay the fine and then appeal to the tribual ?
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Can you please post the original PCN? Just redact your postal address.
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The PCN is GX19171253 and the car is MV11OKX - Yes I did have a warning light
Thank you for helping
There was an appeak at the same location which is interesting to read as followws - https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=14952:70::INITIALISE::70:P70_CAS_REFNO,P70_PCN_REFNO,P70_RETURN_PAGE,P70_AST_CODE:1639512,3034307,60,APPEAL&cs=3xUWJ5b2sqxRUIjWJU6zCoaqOGKJYbgYv-A4axpufMP4tU5TVds41xPlc5w-HGirC8bbOW7PwRPTwyLeo6ADepg
"The Appellant has attended for his appeal.
The Authority's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was stopped where prohibited when in Archway Road on 25 June 2024 at 08:40.
The Appellant's case is that he relied on the painted words adjacent to this box which were LOADING ONLY when he stopped briefly to make a commercial delivery.
I have considered the evidence and I find that the overall signage at this location was inadequate and misleading.
The Authority has not produced the CCTV footage in this case. On the evidence before me the sign plate in this box appears almost hidden against shop premises and too easily missed.
Further, the large painted words adjacent to the location where the Appellant's vehicle was stopped LOADING ONLY are not prescribed by the TSRGD 2016 to be painted adjacent to a red route box, and I find that it has caused confusion and ambiguity.
Accordingly, I find that the overall signage was inadequate and misleading and that this PCN is not proved.
The appeal is allowed."
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Give us the PCN number and the number plate and I'll see if we can find some more substantive grounds of appeal.
Also did you really have a warning light, or did you make that up?
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I did appeal to TFL stating that I had an oil light come on the dash but it has been rejected
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Money is tight and I am a single parent
I parked for one minute in a red route bay O/S 26-268 Archway Road - The picture shows my car enter at 08:59:18 and leave at 09:01:00 - A total of one minute 40 seconds
I sent of an appear to TFL saying that I had a warning light whihc caused me to pull over but they rejected it - I got out the car to read the sign and saw the sign hurried off and pulled in further down the road
I have two questions
1) If I appeal to the adjudicator and lose will I be able to pay £80 or will it increase to 160?
2) Is 1 minute 40 seconds to read the sign reasonable or can you not stop even for one second?
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