Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Jimjam87 on December 28, 2024, 07:35:36 pm

Title: Re: Private parking charge notice pcn
Post by: Jimjam87 on December 29, 2024, 08:27:34 pm
Ok perfect thanks very much we will see how this goes i will update you in due course.
Title: Re: Private parking charge notice pcn
Post by: b789 on December 29, 2024, 05:56:48 pm
Good. Plan A is to make a complaint to the Bushey Medical Centre and ask them to get their agent to cancel the PCN. You did not enter into any contract with their agent and as a patient, it is unfair that a third party is allowed to operate on their premises issuing speculative invoices for £100 a time.

If you've had no response from them by Friday 17th January 2025, for Plan B you appeal to PPS, only as the Keeper.

Plan B, in theory, should be an easy one to defeat... as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. PPS has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. PPS have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

They are unlikely to cancel the PCN as there is no money in it for them. However, they are then obliged to provide you with a POPLA code so that you can try the Plan C appeal. We will cross that bridge when we come to it.
Title: Re: Private parking charge notice pcn
Post by: Jimjam87 on December 29, 2024, 05:13:36 pm
She is on board and wants to appeal this 100%.please let us know the next step,

Sorry for assuming your name was mark I read your quote at the bottom of your posts and assumed mark twain was you
Title: Re: Private parking charge notice pcn
Post by: b789 on December 29, 2024, 05:06:20 pm
Who is “Mark”? We will assist and advise. However, you must understand that this is a well trodden path and we know how to work it. It is highly unlikely that any appeal will be successful because you are dealing with greedy ex-clampers who are prepared to take this all the way to a county court claim in the hope that you are low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and will collapse like a failed soufflé at the hint of litigation.

A county court claim is where this will be defeated. The county court is the ultimate dispute resolution service and only a judge can decide whether you owe the unregulated private parking company a debt.

However, it is unlikely to ever get as far as a hearing. The most likely outcome is that they will discontinue when they realise you are receiving proper advice and are not “gullible”. In the meantime, they will try and scare you by sending debt collector letters which you can safely ignore. Debt collectors are powerless and rely on your ignorance of the law and your rights to try and scare you in to paying.

So, are you prepared to fight this all the way to a successful outcome? If not, then you can simply fund the scammers by paying the mugs discount rate.

As your wife is the Registered Keeper (RK), it has to be in her name but you can do all the work. You will need to reassure her that this is a long drawn out process but we have a very close to 100% success rate.

There is no danger of a CCJ or any effect on your credit record.
Title: Re: Private parking charge notice pcn
Post by: Jimjam87 on December 29, 2024, 04:36:12 pm
Hi Mark I am definitely not an expert and you clearly know all of this like the back of your hand, I really do not want to pay anything. Could you help me appeal this with something written up that I could send them? The no parking sign was screwed into a fence panel to the left of the back of my car on a dividing fence that separates the carpark to a block of flats. The other signs are just dotted about on posts around the car park. I really am clueless with all this and any advice is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Private parking charge notice pcn
Post by: b789 on December 29, 2024, 04:19:03 pm
Where are those signs in relation to where you parked?

Neither sign is capable of forming a contract because:

• No Offer: A prohibitory sign ("No Parking") does not make an offer. Instead, it forbids parking, so there is nothing for the driver to accept.

• No Acceptance: Parking in breach of a prohibition cannot constitute acceptance of a contract. A breach of rules does not create legal agreement.

• No Consideration: There is no exchange of value. The landowner offers nothing in return for the driver's alleged "agreement" to pay a penalty.

• Penal Nature: The £100 charge is a penalty for non-compliance, not a fee agreed under a contract. Penalties are unenforceable in contract law unless they serve a legitimate interest (e.g., in ParkingEye v Beavis), which does not apply here.

In short, prohibitory signs do not invite a contractual relationship.

Why do you think you should pay up? Did the driver breach a contractual agreement? If you think so, should the Keeper who was not the driver be liable for that alleged contractual breach?
Title: Re: Private parking charge notice pcn
Post by: Jimjam87 on December 29, 2024, 12:39:41 pm
Ok so I went to the carpark today and I took pics of there signs however there was one I did not see behind my car on a fence panel which could infact put me in error for parking there.. do you think I can still appeal or just pay the £60 because of the sign on the fence panel?

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Title: Re: Private parking charge notice pcn
Post by: Jimjam87 on December 28, 2024, 10:01:48 pm
Ok thanks very much for the advice is will drive to the doctors tomorrow and add all signs on here and awaiting your response.
Title: Re: Private parking charge notice pcn
Post by: b789 on December 28, 2024, 09:43:41 pm
If you claim that there is no appropriate signage that prohibits parking on the grass verge or even parking outside of a marked bay, please gather photographic evidence of the signs. It is the signs that create the contract between the driver and the operator.

You may want to mention to your angry wife that what she has received is definitely not a fine. I will give you £100 for every instance of the word "fine" you can find in the paperwork.

The Notice to Keeper (NtK) is nothing more than a speculative invoice from PPS for an alleged breach of contract by the driver. If she is tempted by the £40 "mugs discount", then perhaps I ought to send her my own invoice for £100 with a £50 discount if she pays it nice and quickly.

If the signs are as you claim, then there cannot have been a breach of any contract. No contract, the "invoice" is invalid.

You may want to edit your wording so as not to identify who the driver was. Use wording such as "The driver rushed my son to the doctors...". No "I did this" or "I did that". Only "the driver did this or that".

Only the driver is liable for the invoice and PPS have no idea who was driving unless the Keeper blabs it to them, inadvertently or otherwise. The Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA to be able to transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

So, if you feel that the PCN has been issued unfairly and you (in your wife's name as the Keeper) are prepared fight this, then do the following...

Plan A, porch the medical centre management and ask then to get the PCN cancelled. If they are the contractor of PPS then don't be fobbed off with the excuse that you have to go through the PPS appeal. If they try that, ask them who is the Organ Grinder and who is the monkey in their contractual relationship with PPS.

If the doesn't bear fruit, when near the appeal deadline, make a Plan B appeal with the following to PPS, only as the Keeper:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. PPS has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. PPS have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

When that is rejected, come back for instruction on how to make a Plan C appeal to POPLA.

In the meantime, please show us some photos of the signs at the location.
Title: Re: Private parking charge notice pcn
Post by: Jimjam87 on December 28, 2024, 07:36:52 pm
More pics

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Title: Private parking charge notice pcn
Post by: Jimjam87 on December 28, 2024, 07:35:36 pm
Hi All

I was wondering if you could try and get me out of this one, I rushed my son to the doctors unaware they have traffic wardens there now. I received a pcn notice and the reason giving was "PARKING IN NO PARKING AREA" please see pics attached i created my own space and parked on a grass verge in between some designated bays however this is not a sign stating I cannot park there and also no signs in the car park stating you need to park within a designated parking bay, the only signs state not to park on the double yellow lines so I feel I have not made any unlawful infringement by parking where I have, however my wife is super Angry with me and wants to pay the fine before it goes up to £100 atm they state if I pay it is £60.

Any advice is appreciated. I will drive to the doctors carpark and take proper pics of there signs.

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