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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: dk007 on August 27, 2023, 07:03:12 pm

Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: Hippocrates on February 15, 2024, 01:58:44 pm
This bit missing:

this court I prefer the approach taken in Crookes in that making reference to the existence of something by hyperlink, without more, is not publication of that content. As Abella J observed the hyperlink communicates something exists but a further act is required before access is gained to it….”


Conclusion


26. In my view, the provision of a live link to a video on the YouTube website does not fall within the definition of “representations and any supporting evidence” that may be “provided” by the recipient of a notice to owner and “received” by the EA in accordance with sub-paragraphs (4)(a) and (1) of Regulation 6 of the Appeals Regulations and which must, as such, be “considered” by the EA in accordance with that Regulation.

27. The provision of hyperlink is not evidence itself, such as what is written within the representation, or any electronic attachment provided with it or uploaded to the EA’s website. I would give as an example of the latter the image file that was “provided” to, and “received” and “considered” by the EA in this case in the conventional way. I also add that the provision of a live link, or hyperlink, is not one of the “forms and manners” by which representations may be made, as stated on the notice to owner pursuant to Regulation 3(1)(c) and (2) and Regulation 5(2)(a).

28. Rather, the provision of a live link, as identified in the authorities from which I quoted above and from which I derived some assistance, merely communicates that something exists, with a further act required to access it. A representation containing such a live link does not contain, or even append, its content; it is merely a reference to it. I do not accept that a live link is evidence any more than an appellant stating in a representation or a notice of appeal, as they sometimes do, “If you call my friend, she will tell you what happened…”


29. The EA was not under a duty or obligation to follow the live link any more than it would be under an obligation to contact the friend in the example given above. Therefore, its refusal or omission to do so does not amount to a failure to consider the representations and any supporting evidence as required by the Appeals Regulations.

30. Nor, in my view, was the EA under any duty or obligation to provide to this tribunal, as “original representations”, the live link, rather than merely a copy of the URL as provided to it by the recipient of the PCN.

31. An EA could, if it wished, choose to follow a live link provided in representations and consider the material online. That would likely mean, however, that in order to comply with paragraph 3(3) of Schedule 1 to the Appeals Regulations, the EA would have to download the material and provide it to the tribunal.

32. Based on the wording and meaning of the two sets of applicable Regulations, as I interpret them, no procedural impropriety is proved.

Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: cp8759 on February 15, 2024, 09:31:02 am
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UJTvJqi5Jfk-YQqmbdf4wonN15cc7k4o/view), there is not enough to argue an error of law but even if there were, that's no longer a ground to seek a review.
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: cp8759 on October 22, 2023, 07:29:24 pm
I've sent you a PM.
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: dk007 on October 22, 2023, 06:22:03 pm
Yes please, I have full confidence in you. Many thanks
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: cp8759 on October 22, 2023, 05:58:37 pm
Well I've checked the youtube stats and they still haven't looked at the video, so there's still a compelling case to be made that they've ignored the representations, or at least the supporting evidence.

Would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: Incandescent on October 22, 2023, 12:36:25 am
They haven't re-offered the discount, so it is now a no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals, as the penalty remains the same.
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: dk007 on October 21, 2023, 11:09:49 pm
Hi,

I have received the letter of rejection for the formal representation I made. Please find it attached.

Thanks

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: cp8759 on October 08, 2023, 11:39:08 pm
They say they've considered everything you've said, but that's a lie:

(https://i.imgur.com/iq9WB2b.png)

Just send this as your formal representation:

Dear London Borough of Hounslow,

I require you to consider my informal representations as my formal representations.

Yours faithfully,

Make it nice and easy for them to send a formal notice of rejection without bothering to consider anything at all.
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: dk007 on October 08, 2023, 07:02:24 pm
I have received the reply for the appeal from the council and they have rejected it. I am attaching the rejection letter, they have also sent the Notice to Owner, shall I post that too here?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: dk007 on September 21, 2023, 11:14:34 pm
Sure, thanks for the draft, i have now made the representation.
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: cp8759 on September 21, 2023, 05:06:56 pm
Draft reps, don't use your own youtube link, use the one I will PM to you. Do not open the link, if the video count remains at zero views we can then prove that they never looked at it, and that is a failure to consider and thus a procedural impropriety.

Dear London Borough of Hounslow,

I would like to request cancellation of PCN NJ38706354 because at the material time I was loading goods into my car, and the shop is in close proximity to where I parked. To illustrate the point I have placed a video at (link) which I invite you to review.

In light of the above I am sure you will agree the PCN should be canceled. I attach a receipt from the shop.

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: dk007 on September 21, 2023, 09:19:39 am
Just to update that I have found  the invoice for that day. I think today would be the last day to make this representation, any thoughts on draft?
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: dk007 on September 20, 2023, 09:58:01 pm
Sure, thanks
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: Incandescent on September 20, 2023, 08:19:37 pm
You have 28 days in total, but if your reps are received within the discount period and they refuse them, they'll re-offer the discount. They don't have to do so for reps received after the 14 days has expired.
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: dk007 on September 20, 2023, 07:32:44 pm
Did i have to make a representation with in 14 days of this PCN? or is it 28 days from that date?
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: dk007 on September 19, 2023, 08:07:49 pm
Hi, Thanks for the reply. I think I bought some isolation valves, it was not collection order or so. I just went to the store and bought. I might have a receipt for the item but need to search for it, it might have been a cash payment of £10-£15.  Not sure how helpful this is.
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: cp8759 on September 18, 2023, 09:26:51 pm
OK so we've got something to work with, we just need a bit more evidence to put to the council.

So starting with the basics, what was the plumbing item?

Did you order it in advance and if so, do you have proof like an email receipt, or a text saying the item is ready for collection?

Do you have an invoice for the item?
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: dk007 on September 18, 2023, 12:12:01 am
Hi,

Please find the video link for the route from the parked car to shop and back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRSk8PHesWg

Let me know if anything else is needed.

Thanks
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: cp8759 on August 28, 2023, 01:48:54 pm
Would you be able to film a video illustrating the walking route from your car to the shop and back?
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: dk007 on August 28, 2023, 12:42:21 pm
Hi, I picked the item up from a plumbing shop nearby called Hounslow Heating.
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: cp8759 on August 28, 2023, 12:39:20 pm
The best way out of this would be proving a failure to consider.

Where did you pick up the item from?
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: Incandescent on August 27, 2023, 07:32:42 pm
Looking at your GSV link, there is a wide pavement with paving slabs. I assume you parked partially off the carriageway on that pavement; correct ? If so, then you would appear to be bang-to-rights as parking off carriageway in London has been an offence since the 70s. 

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear, but it is reality, I'm afraid. Having said that, there are other things that can get PCNs cancelled, and our adminstrator, CP8759 is very skilled at finding them out. The only downside is that one normally has to take the council (or TfL), to London Tribunals as representations to councils/TfL are usually rejected in about 95% of cases.

So see what the others say, but don't miss any deadlines.

Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: dk007 on August 27, 2023, 07:16:59 pm
Hi, thanks for the reply. I have uploaded the information.
Title: Re: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: Rudess on August 27, 2023, 07:05:13 pm
Quote from: dk007 on August 27, 2023, 07:03:12 pm
Hello Experts,

I have received a PCN for contravention code 622 (Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath...), is it possible to make a representation for it. It was parked there just for couple of minutes to pick up an item and there was no parking space available around.

Please upload the full PCN from all sides (Redact personal details like name and address), and any photos.

Also if you could provide the google maps link to the location where the alleged contravention happened.
Title: PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
Post by: dk007 on August 27, 2023, 07:03:12 pm
Hello Experts,

I have received a PCN for contravention code 622 (Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath...), is it possible to make a representation for it. It was parked there just for couple of minutes to pick up an item and there was no parking space available around.

Google map location:

https://goo.gl/maps/KBXNEmQ5W4wboWBg7

[attachment deleted by admin]