Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: usernamenotfound on December 25, 2024, 01:20:36 pm
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Yes the door was open to evidence and they accepted. Well done.
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Well done !!
Nottingham CC have form as a particularly venal and rapacious council.
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Thank you for writing to us.
Although your Penalty Charge Notice was correctly given, we have cancelled it on this
occasion based on the information provided.
If you get another Penalty Charge Notice in similar circumstances, we may not be able to
cancel it.
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Just checking for any more advice before I ask her to write the statement and send her receipt.
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She's found a receipt of some shopping she did on the day, but not the exact item I helped her carry, although I did take some of those items on the the receipt also.
I can definitely get a witness statement from her. What needs to be included in this?
Thanks again for the help throughout Christmas and New Year, I can imagine it's a busy time for all, so much appreciated.
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I said they wouldn't accept loading.
Your challenge was reasonable and left the door open to discretion without going overboard on loading.
Can you get a purchase receipt from your acquaintance for the goods? Plus maybe evidence of infirmity?
Or a witness statement
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I said they wouldn't accept loading.
Your challenge was reasonable and left the door open to discretion without going overboard on loading.
Can you get a purchase receipt from your acquaintance for the goods? Plus maybe evidence of infirmity?
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Nottingham city council has responded:
Thank you for writing to us.
We have carefully considered what you say but you have not provided enough evidence
for us to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice. Please see below for what you must do next.
You have these choices:- We will reconsider your case if you send us documentary evidence of loading or
unloading e.g. a delivery note, a receipt/invoice for goods or a job sheet (we need
this because the civil enforcement officer watched your vehicle and saw no loading
or unloading taking place). You need to do this within 14 days of the date of this
letter. Please send a photocopy (not the original) and quote your Penalty Charge
Notice number (see above).
OR- You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 if your payment reaches us within 14 days of
the date of this letter.- You can pay £70.00 within 28 days of the date your Penalty Charge Notice was issued.- You can make a representation against your Penalty Charge Notice by using a Notice to
Owner form. The vehicle's owner will automatically receive the form if the Penalty Charge
Notice has not been paid within 28 days of being issued. The form offers you the chance to
make a representation against your Penalty Charge Notice or pay the full £70.00
I do not have a delivery note, receipt or job sheet. Only a phone call to the acquaintance.
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Thanks for helping with my draft. I'll get this sent now and post results once I've heard back.
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Delete this:
I therefore request for leniency due to the exceptional circumstances.
as you are asking for exemption not discretion, albeit in a softer way.
Add:
I look forward to early confirmation of cancellation of the PCN.
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How about this?
Dear Nottingham City Council,
The allegation on the face of the PCN is "Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours".
At the time of the allegation, I was making a prearranged collection. The package I needed to collect was from Lace Market Hotel, directly opposite where the vehicle was parked. The resident of the hotel has impaired mobility and asked for assistance in handling perishable goods. I offered to collect these from her room.
The vehicle was observed from 19:51 to 19:56, at the time I was in the hotel receiving the package.
I believe that this qualifies for the loading exemption as I only took as long as necessary and there are no nearby parking bays. I therefore request for leniency due to the exceptional circumstances.
Yours sincerely.
Details of PCN NG45700814
VREG: EX67 NDY
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You can drop that second point as it's wrong. The contravention is listed as a higher level penalty in the regs.
I think you should tone it down and say you were making a prearranged collection etc and that you feel this qualifies for the loading exemption as took only as long as necessary and there are no nearby parking bays.
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No pay bays near where I was parked.
Please see draft below:
Dear Nottingham City Council,
The alleged contravention did not occur. The allegation on the face of the PCN is "Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours". I wish to exercise my right for loading exemption under Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD) 2016 and associated local traffic enforcement guidelines.
The package I needed to collect was from Lace Market Hotel, directly opposite where the vehicle was parked. The resident of the hotel has impaired mobility and asked for assistance in handling perishable goods. I offered to collect these from her room.
The vehicle was observed from 19:51 to 19:56, at the time I was in hotel receiving the package. By the time I had returned to the vehicle, The PCN had been attached to the windscreen and the officer was not present.
(Side note: I am not sure if the below point is applicable or not, please let me know if I should delete it)
I also note the authority is not entitled to charge £70 for this penalty because the high-level charge of £70 can only be imposed if the wording of the contravention is that found in the table at schedule 2 to The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (Guidelines on Levels of Charges) (England) Order 2007, and the wording found on the PCN does not appear in that table. It follows that even if the contravention alleged had occurred, the only penalty that could be demanded would have been £50. As the penalty demanded exceeds the amount due by law in any event, the penalty must be cancelled.
Details of PCN NG45700814
VREG: EX67 NDY
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If you were collecting something perishable from someone with impaired mobility you should certainly ask for the loading exemption.
Draft something and post here.
Are there any pay bays nearby?
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The acquaintance isn't the most physically abled, but otherwise is not registered as physically disabled. She just needed help as the item was bulky and I offered to take it from the hotel room.
I'll wait for other responses until Monday, otherwise I am mindful that my current argument is considered weak, and may just have to attempt a potentially fruitless appeal.
Any tips on how I word this would be appreciated though.
Thanks
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Is there any reason why the acquaintance couldn't bring the food to your car? I doubt you'll be able to convince Nottingham you were loading unless this was a huge batch of giant fish fingers requiring two people.
But I would ask for discretion as you did stop fairly briefly to pick up goods that needed quick handling presumably. No ask no get.
There may be something others spot on the PCN.
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Thanks Stamfordman and HC Andersen.
How would I establish my appeal if it was a case of an acquaintance staying at the hotel who had a package of frozen goods with no means of storage or convenient transport?
Here is the back:
https://imgur.com/UquDrZY
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It's a controlled zone - here's an entry sign:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.9512005,-1.1420957,3a,43.1y,217.61h,96.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s7L9TgI_Xpj6GgJaVX1S2TQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-6.260000000000005%26panoid%3D7L9TgI_Xpj6GgJaVX1S2TQ%26yaw%3D217.61!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
To qualify for the loading exemption, as said you need to give a convincing story for preordered stuff that couldn't be collected say by finding a pay bay and justify the 5 minute observation time when presumably the CEO saw nothing.
Note that Nottingham is one of the sterner authorities in these matters.
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Thanks.
We need to flesh this out: The parcel was a food parcel intended for a Christmas dinner.
Why were you collecting this from a hotel? Do you have any correspondence regarding why?
Perhaps...The Lace Hotel provides a takeaway service for pre-ordered food and I had placed (and paid for?) an order for ***** which I had arranged to collect at ** on ****.
Give us more meat pl and the back of the PCN.
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I am a private individual and was collecting a parcel from the Lace Market Hotel. The parcel was a food parcel intended for a Christmas dinner.
I parked on the yellow line and went to the the Lace Market Hotel where I waited for the package, collected it, and then returned a few minutes later.
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As I was expecting a delivery from the hotel opposite (Lace market hotel), the package was roughly 5-10kg, I parked on the single yellow line assuming this was fine....... By the time I had returned with the package...
'Expecting a delivery'...'..I returned with the package' (which was therefore collected, not delivered!!).
This is confusing so pl just walk us through what you did.
I work as a courier and in the course of my employment had to collect a parcel from ****/I am a private individual and was collecting a parcel from **(in which case, why?/I was delivering a package to ***(again, why?).
I parked on the yellow line and went to the *** where I ***** and returned a few minutes later .....
Just your simple account pl.
And pl post the back of the PCN. If they re-offer the discount even with unsuccessful reps(provided these are made within the 14-day period) then the PCN will say so.
14-day period ends 31 Dec.
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I did not see any CPZ signs on the way, this may have been something I overlooked. Nevertheless, under traffic regulations, loading and unloading are permissible activities on yellow lines, provided they are necessary, continuous, and do not exceed a reasonable duration.
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There were no time plates because it's part of a CPZ. The restrictions would have been stated on the signs at the entrance to the CPZ
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Good afternoon and merry xmas everyone,
I have provided the following PCN details before stating my case:
PCN number: NG45700814
Served on: 18/12/24
CEO: 2716
"who had reason to believe that the following contravention has ocured and that a penalty charge is now payable 01
01 - parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours"
Date of contravention: 18/12/24 19.56
location: HIGH PAVEMENT
description of location: op os 27
reg: EX67NDY
observed from: 19.51 to 19.56
I was parked at this location (just in front of the royal mail van.)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/cCH1MoPsC5Dcumtj8
As I was expecting a delivery from the hotel opposite (Lace market hotel), the package was roughly 5-10kg, I parked on the single yellow line assuming this was fine. There were no signs that were visible to explain this single yellow line so naturally I thought it was safe to park, there was one other vehicle parked behind me at the time also making a delivery. By the time I had returned with the package, the PCN was stuck on my windscreen (completely soaking wet from the rain might I add, could they not use a plastic bag?)
I apologise for the late post as I am aware I will only have 14 days for the reduced payment (the standard boilerplate PCN discount). Is it true that the discount remains even if they reject my appeal, as long as I appealed within 14 days?
Hopefully my case is solid enough to dispute this PCN, any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
PCN: https://imgur.com/PRvUXa0 (apologies for the crinkles, I had to dry it on a radiator overnight)