Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: jacoscar on June 18, 2023, 04:30:07 pm

Title: Re: Parking fine in a lay-by in Snowdonia, only coins or app accepted
Post by: jacoscar on September 05, 2023, 01:54:33 pm
PCN cancelled!

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Parking fine in a lay-by in Snowdonia, only coins or app accepted
Post by: cp8759 on July 06, 2023, 09:54:04 pm
I'd put the basic point to them and see how they answer it:

Dear Gwynedd Council,

I dispute liability for PCN GW33544579 on the basis of inadequate signage. I was parked on a road and I did not see any signs, let alone any compliant signs, indicating that any sort of parking restrictions are in force.

While it is the responsibility of the motorist to check for signs and restrictions before they park and leave their vehicle, it is the responsibility of the highway authority to ensure its signs are compliant with the Traffic Signs Regulations 2016, and also that the signage as a whole is adequate within the meaning of regulation 18(1) of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996.

The signage in this instance is blatantly not complaint with the 2016 regulations, and it is certainly not adequate. It follows that the contravention did not occur and the penalty charge must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: Parking fine in a lay-by in Snowdonia, only coins or app accepted
Post by: jacoscar on July 06, 2023, 02:59:17 pm
I finally received the NtO
(https://i.imgur.com/69D6spn.png)

pages 2 to 4 attached as PDF

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Parking fine in a lay-by in Snowdonia, only coins or app accepted
Post by: jacoscar on June 18, 2023, 08:41:48 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on June 18, 2023, 04:38:08 pm
The rejection is nonsense, there needs to be TSRGD signage within sight of the car for an on-street contravention. Just wait for the Notice to Owner and I'll draft a representation for you.

I'm presuming the car is registered to you, you have the V5C, and the address is 100% correct / up to date?

Yes, my car, address correct on the V5C
Title: Re: Parking fine in a lay-by in Snowdonia, only coins or app accepted
Post by: cp8759 on June 18, 2023, 04:38:08 pm
The rejection is nonsense, there needs to be TSRGD signage within sight of the car for an on-street contravention. Just wait for the Notice to Owner and I'll draft a representation for you.

I'm presuming the car is registered to you, you have the V5C, and the address is 100% correct / up to date?
Title: Parking fine in a lay-by in Snowdonia, only coins or app accepted
Post by: jacoscar on June 18, 2023, 04:30:07 pm
I'm reposting a thread I started on pepipoo:

Hello, I was given a fine last Sunday near Snowdonia.
I parked in a lay-by 1.8km (30 minutes walk) from the start of our hike (which has a prebook car park). I didn’t even think of checking the parking restrictions, but upon my return I found the fine and then spotted the pay machine and a small vertical sign (I parked exactly between the two)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZdY46lk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ErhxxGh.jpg)
When I checked the machine I noticed you can only pay by coins or by app; we couldn’t have paid anyway because we didn’t have cash and there was no mobile phone signal to make a call, let alone to download the app

Here is a redacted version of the fine
(https://i.imgur.com/8ICzEmv.jpg)


I checked the machine and it seemed to be working, although I had to press all the buttons to change the language to English, here is a small video

https://imgur.com/a/9kIi8kF

I am on Lebara (Vodafone) and my girlfriend was on Giffgaff (O2), both had no signal

The exact spot is here

https://maps.app.goo.gl/RuHY9s9xRVBgC4uP9?g_st=ic


----

This is what I wrote to them
-----

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally challenge the parking fine issued to me on 06/05/2023 near Pen-y-pass, for the violation of parking regulations at the A498 lay-by at A4086 junction. I believe this fine was unjustly imposed, and I respectfully request a review of my case.

PCN Number *****
Vehicle registration: ****

Address:
{my address}
I would like to present the following reasons for contesting the parking fine:

1. Inadequate Signage: The only signage in the area, which read "have you paid and displayed?" was not visible from where I parked. This lack of clear and visible signage prevented me from being aware of the parking restrictions and the need to pay for parking.

2. Limited Payment Options: The payment machine at the location only accepts coins or payment via an app. At the time, I did not have any coins on me, and there was no signal in the area to download and use the app for payment. Consequently, I was unable to pay for parking even if I had been aware of the requirement.

I have attached photographic evidence of the inadequate signage and the absence of mobile network signal in the area to support my case.

I kindly request a formal review of the parking fine based on the reasons mentioned above. I firmly believe that the evidence provided demonstrates my lack of knowledge regarding the need to pay for parking and the absence of viable payment options at the time.

I would appreciate a prompt response to this e-mail to allow for the timely resolution of the matter. Please inform me of the outcome of the review process and provide further instructions if necessary.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. I trust that the council will carefully consider my appeal and ensure a fair resolution.

Best regards,

{my name}

I challenged the fine with the following



This is what they answered

Mr [redacted mispelled name] [redacted surname]
By Email
[redacted email] Your ref GW33544579
Date 13/06/2023
Direct dial 01824 708 487
Mrs L Jones

Dear Mr [redacted surname]
Re : Notice of rejection of “challenge” – Traffic Management Act 2004
PCN No : GW33544579
Vehicle : HV60XZO
Date Issued : 06/05/2023 13:19:27
Location of Contravention : A498 LAY-BY AT A4086 JUNCTION
I have received your challenge dated 15th May 2023 to the above Penalty Charge
Notice and after careful consideration of the circumstances have found no
grounds for the cancellation of the charge.
The Penalty Charge Notice was correctly issued. Your vehicle was parked
without clearly displaying a valid Pay and Display ticket.
You believe that there is inadequate signage and say that even if you would have
been aware of the requirement for payment you would not have been able to pay
as you had no coins or signal to download and use the app for payment.
However, when parking it is the responsibility of the motorist to check for signs
and restrictions before they park and leave their vehicle; in this instance the
signage could be seen from the position of your vehicle (see attached photograph
below).
If a motorist finds that they do not have the means for payment then the onus
remains with the motorist to locate and utilise another parking place that does not
contravene the restrictions in place.
The failure to make payment for your parking time is not acceptable and
contravenes the Parking Regulations to which there is no defence based on
mitigating circumstances. Your reasons are therefore not accepted as grounds for
cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice.

You can still take advantage of the discounted charge of £35.00 if you pay within
14 days from 13/06/2023.
You can also pay by our 24 hour automated telephone payment service. The
Telephone Payment Number is: 0345 6032677. With touch-tone keypad, follow
the voice prompts and enter your Penalty Charge Notice number and card details
via your telephone keypad. Payments are processed automatically, you will be
told that your payment has been authorised and you will be given an
authorisation code as confirmation.
Alternatively you can speak to a member of staff (Mon – Fri 9am to 4:30pm) who
will process your payment. Please call 0345 6056556 and state you are calling to
pay a Penalty Charge Notice (please have this to hand). Payment will be
authorised during your call so the member of staff can provide you with an
authorisation code as confirmation.
If no payment is received by 27/06/2023 a “Notice to Owner” will be sent to the
owner/keeper of the vehicle as registered with the DVLA. Please note that this
Notice will not be sent to the driver. If you are the driver but not the owner, and
you still wish to make formal representations, you are advised to contact the
owner who can respond to the Notice accordingly.
If this Council rejects the representations to the “Notice to Owner”, a notice of
rejection will be sent with details of the appeal procedure. You cannot appeal to
the Traffic Penalty Tribunal until the “Notice to Owner” has been issued and
formal representations rejected.
Please note that the discounted charge will no longer be available after 14 days
and the charge will return to the original £70 if payment is not made in time.
Yours sincerely

pitcure they sent me
https://imgur.com/hrbCUph