Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: syd16 on December 22, 2024, 12:27:59 pm
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Thanks John. I will PM him. Appreciate your help.
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Hi Syd,
Any updates on how your appeal went?
I have encountered the same issue as you but the disabled wording has faded even more from when your ticket was in 2024. I had also paid via the ringo app for the free hour of parking, my ticket was issued in Aug 2025 so just wanted to know how you got on and if it’s worth appealing? As that parking spot is a traffic wardens dream! Thanks Ann
@Ann
You could try a PM to Syd, but qute often posters do not come back to tell us results.
As usual, for meaningful advice you will need to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
and start your own thread by posting up there
both sides of the unredacted PCN ,
any council photos,
and
a GSV link to the location.
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Hi Syd,
Any updates on how your appeal went?
I have encountered the same issue as you but the disabled wording has faded even more from when your ticket was in 2024. I had also paid via the ringo app for the free hour of parking, my ticket was issued in Aug 2025 so just wanted to know how you got on and if it’s worth appealing? As that parking spot is a traffic wardens dream! Thanks Ann
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I have my tribunal hearing due tomorrow. I just logged in to the appellant portal and see the council have uploaded their 'evidence'. They mention sending this evidence to me on 5th June but I not received them.
They agree the wording is faded and that there is still adequate signage which is definitely not the case as I would not have paid through Ringo app assuming it was a normal parking space. I have tried to make this clear in my supporting arguments and that the disabled bay must be distinguishable from the adjacent bays. Any thoughts or tips for my hearing tomorrow?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Also, what can I expect with the tribunals process?
For the process, see
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/appeals-process-explained
and scroll down.
Personal hearings are now by telephone or video link. Never, ever, opt for a decision on papers (= a decision in your absence).
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Agreed, any thoughts on my latest appeal information and whether this is good enough evidence to use for the tribunal appeal? The council acknowledge the road markings have faded which I see it as against the terms of TSRGD.
Also, what can I expect with the tribunals process?
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It's now a total no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals, because the penalty remains the same and there are no additional costs.
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Hi, so an update on this I appealed it again to the council which they rejected. I now have the option to either pay the full fine or appeal and take it to independent tribunal. I may as well appeal it as I have the chance to pay the full fine if I lose at tribunal but could I get any help or advice with the tribunal process and what to expect?
This is the full appeal letter to the council and their response below it:
Subject: Appeal for Parking Charge Notice – PCN Reference: AF08423360
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to again formally appeal the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) referenced above, issued to me on 19th December 2024 for allegedly parking in a designated disabled parking space without clearly displaying a valid disabled person’s badge.
You mention in your reply in the letter dated 9th January 2025 that “lines on the road become faded from time to time, however they are still enforceable”. However, I contest that assertion as local authorities are legally responsible for ensuring that bays with restrictions must clearly stand out for drivers.
Please see below the evidence for this:
As per the Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 1 Introduction (2018)
1.2.1. In the Manual, the word “must” is used to indicate a legal requirement of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (or other legislation) that must be complied with.
As per the Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 3 Regulatory Signs (2019)
13.6.3. The bays must stand out from the surrounding parts of the road and any adjoining bays, so that drivers are clear about where to park and which restrictions, if any, apply.
Therefore, on the above grounds you have failed to clearly indicate to me as a driver that this bay stood out against the adjacent bays on this block. I attach the evidence of the faded road markings at the time of the alleged contravention as well as a copy of registering my car through the Ringo app at the time of the alleged contravention as I had mistaken this bay for a normal parking bay due to the poor conditions of the road markings.
The ground marking of "DISABLED" in the parking bay where I parked was extremely worn and illegible and the space is not distinguishable from the adjacent normal parking bays which you acknowledge yourself in your reply and therefore constitutes a valid reason for the cancellation of the PCN.
Given these circumstances, I kindly request that you review the evidence and take into account the substandard condition of the ground markings when making your decision. I trust you will find that this appeal is justified and that the PCN will be cancelled accordingly.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to your prompt response and the cancellation of the charge.
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You're right, thanks Incandescent I missed this. I will appeal again and see how they respond.
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There's no mention of this going to an independent tribunal stage if they reject it. Any ideas what would happen if they reject it?
Oh, but there is. If you look on page three of your NtO, there is a large third paragraph starting "we will consider your representations....." Reference is made there that if they reject your reps you can appeal to an adjudicator.
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I decided not to pay the penalty and have received the below notice. I plan to make representation and challenge the PCN.
There's no mention of this going to an independent tribunal stage if they reject it. Any ideas what would happen if they reject it?
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... Do you think it is worth taking the risk of paying the full fine and appealing it further?
I'm no expert so see what others suggest, but I think that if you pay up at this stage that is the matter closed. You can't appeal further. But I may be wrong...
If you pay now your appeal option is lost. However, if you take the matter to London Tribunals, it is the full penalty if you lose, with no extra costs, so why pay now if you could potentially win your case and pay nothing ?
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... Do you think it is worth taking the risk of paying the full fine and appealing it further?
I'm no expert so see what others suggest, but I think that if you pay up at this stage that is the matter closed. You can't appeal further. But I may be wrong...
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Thanks for your advice, I am the registered keeper indeed. I'm happy to take it further, I did beat the council on a YBJ ticket last year with the help of members of this forum (link (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/yellow-box-junction-ilford-ley-street/15/)). Will await further comments.
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Are you the registered keeper? I ask because it's only the RK who's in the frame at the NTO stage.
Also, we've recently seen a spate of councils not re-offering the discount after unsuccessful formal reps(you called yours 'formal' but they weren't) so this council's track record needs to be factored in. Perhaps other posters could help.
Set against this is what I understand is their woeful administration of formal reps which even at the 11th hour could drag victory from the jaws of defeat on purely technical grounds.
Wait for other comments.
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That's correct I did use the Ringo app to register my car, parking was free for 1 hour, was a genuine mistake. I recall there was a free parking space a few spots down so if it was made clear that this is a disabled parking space then I certainly would have parked in the other space! You're probably right I should have mentioned in my appeal that I registered the car in Ringo. Do you think it is worth taking the risk of paying the full fine and appealing it further?
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You parked, knew* you were in a parking place because, according to you, you consulted the traffic sign and paid for parking rights via RingGo. But for some reason you didn't mention this in your reps. In their eyes I suspect that not paying marks you as being a chancer whereas payment implies you made a genuine mistake, it certainly is more in your favour than not IMO.
* Or did you not pay and could argue (I doubt successfully) that you didn't know you were in a parking place of any type, let alone disabled, because there weren't any discernible road markings?
IMO, your current line(!) must fail because your own photo shows the parking place markings, the internal transverse line marking the change in restriction and, as observed by others, clear traffic signs where this occurs.
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So I appealed this on the basis that markings on the ground are extremely worn so the "DISABLED" marking was illegible which contravenes the requirement for the clear delineation of designated spaces as outlined in the TSRGD and constitutes a valid reason for the cancellation of the PCN.
They have rejected my appeal though - see below. Is this worth appealing further or taking it to tribunal?
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This is my full appeal letter:
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to formally appeal the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) referenced above, issued to me on 19th December 2024 for allegedly parking in a designated disabled parking space without clearly displaying a valid disabled person’s badge.
I acknowledge the requirement to display a valid disabled person’s badge when parking in a designated disabled bay. However, I respectfully request that you reconsider this charge for the following reason:
The ground marking of "DISABLED" in the parking bay where I parked is extremely worn and illegible and the space is not distinguishable from the adjacent normal parking bays. The faded markings do not clearly indicate that the space is designated for disabled persons, making it impossible for a driver to reasonably identify the parking restriction in accordance with current regulations. Part 3 of TSRGD 2016 specifically addresses road markings, including markings for disabled parking bays, ensuring that they are clearly defined and distinguishable from regular parking bays. These spaces are typically marked with a wheelchair symbol and the word "DISABLED", with specific dimensions and visibility standards.
The poor condition of the ground markings at the location in question directly led to my misunderstanding of the parking restrictions even though I registered my parked vehicle through the Ringo app. I was unable to clearly identify that the space was a disabled parking bay, as the "DISABLED" marking was illegible. This situation contravenes the requirement for the clear delineation of designated spaces, as outlined in the TSRGD, and I believe this constitutes a valid reason for the cancellation of the PCN.
Local authorities are responsible for maintaining road markings and signs. If a disabled parking bay is adjacent to regular spaces, and the boundary or marking of the disabled bay is unclear or faded, the local authority has an obligation to refresh or repaint the markings to comply with the TSRGD.
The markings should be renewed if they have become difficult to see, as faded markings can make it unclear whether a parking space is designated for disabled use, potentially leading to unfair penalties for drivers.
Given these circumstances, I kindly request that you review the evidence and take into account the substandard condition of the ground markings when making your decision. I trust you will find that this appeal is justified and that the PCN will be cancelled accordingly.
I have attached photographs showing the worn and unclear "DISABLED" marking for your reference. If you require any additional information or evidence to support my appeal, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to your prompt response and the cancellation of the charge.
Yours faithfully,
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Whilst the carriageway markings are very worn, the sign is in good condition, and, what's more, placed at the boundary between the PbP parking for everybody, and the disabled bay, with arrows on each sign to indicate applicability. So I think you would struggle to overturn this PCN on the contravention itself. However, there may be a 'technical' appeal based on council mismanagement of the enforcement process and the content of the PCN itself. The PCN looks OK to me, although the last sentence in the 'How to challenge' section is not totally compliant with what the regulations require, but probably good enough for an adjudicator.
So wait a bit to see what the others say.
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Hi guys, I have been hit with a PCN from a Redbridge council officer for parking in a disabled person's parking place without displaying a blue badge on Ilford Lane IG1. I had parked at the end of a parade of maybe around 6 adjacent parking spots out of which just the end one I had parked in is for disabled persons only. I was shocked because neither I nor my partner who was with me at the time realised I had parked in a disabled person's spot.
Looking at the surrounding signage there is maybe some ignorance on my part - I had read read the top sign and duly registered my car in the Ringo app and had missed the bottom sign. However, I do see the ground marking "DISABLED" label is not very clear and hence in busy traffic/bright conditions can seem subtle and hidden. Just wanted to check with the forum if there is a legal requirement for the signage on the ground to be visible and easily legible and if I have a good case to challenge this? PCN and photos attached:
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