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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Enrolme1 on December 21, 2024, 08:52:29 pm

Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: cp8759 on April 09, 2025, 06:17:19 pm
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FpFFE3G_T71WAuqQFImq4sZNJ97Jqcwt/view).
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: cp8759 on April 09, 2025, 06:17:01 pm
Not allowed to discuss publicly. ;D

Has video destroyed the concept of a public hearing??? :(
The TPT will let anyone dial into a hearing, you just have to ask for the list in advance and let them know which ones you want to listen to, and they email you the link. It might be an idea for someone to try the same with London Tribunals, maybe pick some case at random from the list, email the tribunal and tell them that you'd like to observe proceedings.
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Hippocrates on April 09, 2025, 12:57:41 pm
Not allowed to discuss publicly. ;D

Has video destroyed the concept of a public hearing??? :(
You should get in touch with EDW of pepipoo!

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/attention-all-recipients-of-pcns-from-lambeth-lewisham-andor-southwark-proposed-/

Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: John U.K. on April 09, 2025, 12:56:50 pm
Not allowed to discuss publicly. ;D

Has video destroyed the concept of a public hearing??? :(
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Hippocrates on April 09, 2025, 12:53:23 pm
Not allowed to discuss publicly. ;D
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: John U.K. on April 09, 2025, 12:30:00 pm
Well done!

And what were Mr.Whitlock's responses to each of yr points??
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Hippocrates on April 09, 2025, 11:57:40 am
 ;D 2250049658
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Hippocrates on January 29, 2025, 12:47:11 pm
It's Tribunal time.  I will PM you my details. These people cannot read the laws.
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: H C Andersen on January 28, 2025, 03:41:58 pm
OP, the PCN is c**p.

The power to issue a CC arises after a TWO-PART test:

Part 1 - the PCN has not been paid in full before the end of the 'relevant period'.

Part 2 - deciding on and applying the 'relevant period' for the circumstances:

Relevant period is the period of 28 days BEGINNING on:

a. Where representations are not made, the date of service of the PCN;
b. a condition relating to making an appeal;
c. a condition relating to responding to an unsuccessful appeal to the adjudicator.

And the council somehow manage to distil the above into:

If PCN not paid in full before end of period of 28 days beginning on the date of the notice.

They're morons.
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Incandescent on January 28, 2025, 03:29:40 pm
Hi again,

I am afraid Southwark has rejected my presentation with the attached email.
Would you look at it and advice what could be done?

Best!
I will hand over to Hippocrates, because their reply indicates that an advance sign is in place on your approach. So you would be looking at a 'technical' appeal based on Southwark mismanagement of the enforcement process. As I understand it, this is based around incorrect info on when a Charge Certificate can be served.
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Enrolme1 on January 28, 2025, 12:56:12 pm
Hi again,

I am afraid Southwark has rejected my presentation with the attached email.
Would you look at it and advice what could be done?

Best!


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Enrolme1 on January 03, 2025, 11:51:10 am
PM sent.

Thank you Hippocrates!

I have replied.

Best!
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Hippocrates on January 02, 2025, 02:57:32 pm
PM sent.
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Enrolme1 on January 01, 2025, 06:40:10 pm
I will draft my effort privately and offer to represent you.

Morning Hippocrates,

Than you for your help and offer. That would be great. I do not have much experience.
What can I do?
Best!

Happy Christmas!

I would like very much your offer to draft your ideas and offer to help represent me.
Would you really do that, please?
Let me know how to help myself.
Thanks in advance!
Best
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Enrolme1 on January 01, 2025, 06:31:34 pm
https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4389.0;attach=9838

They cannot serve a charge certificate 28 days from the date of the notice. It must be 28 days from the date of service.

Hi Hippocrates,

I am sorry - I do not understand what you mean - would you elaborate about the charge certificate and the 28 days..., please?

I do like your offer to draft and represent the case.
What I need to do, please?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Enrolme1 on January 01, 2025, 06:26:46 pm
Happy New Year all!
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Hippocrates on December 31, 2024, 12:17:55 pm
https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4389.0;attach=9838

They cannot serve a charge certificate 28 days from the date of the notice. It must be 28 days from the date of service.
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Enrolme1 on December 26, 2024, 11:28:19 am
I will draft my effort privately and offer to represent you.

Morning Hippocrates,

Than you for your help and offer. That would be great. I do not have much experience.
What can I do?
Best!

Happy Christmas!
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Enrolme1 on December 26, 2024, 11:24:52 am
With no warning sign on De Crespigny Park, you have a good argument for inadequate signage, because the signs are high up, and face you sideways as you approach the junction with Grove Lane. Councils are under a duty in LATOR Regulation 18, to place adequate signage for the restriction. Of course, 'adequate' is subjective, but here I think the assessment has to be inadequate.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18

So it looks like you have two arguments to put in your representations, (mine and Hippocrates). Certainly do not cough-up just yet ! However, don't miss the deadline for submission of reps.

Hi Incandescent,

Would it be OK to contest on both arguments in same representation or needs to be separate?
And what would be the basis on the contest? The form has got a set reasons for contesting.
What wording would be best to use?

Thanks again and Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Enrolme1 on December 26, 2024, 11:12:56 am
Merry Christmas All!
Thank you all for looking and helping.
Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Hippocrates on December 23, 2024, 07:23:28 pm
I will draft my effort privately and offer to represent you.
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Incandescent on December 22, 2024, 10:46:34 pm
With no warning sign on De Crespigny Park, you have a good argument for inadequate signage, because the signs are high up, and face you sideways as you approach the junction with Grove Lane. Councils are under a duty in LATOR Regulation 18, to place adequate signage for the restriction. Of course, 'adequate' is subjective, but here I think the assessment has to be inadequate.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18

So it looks like you have two arguments to put in your representations, (mine and Hippocrates). Certainly do not cough-up just yet ! However, don't miss the deadline for submission of reps.

Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Enrolme1 on December 22, 2024, 09:37:22 pm
Here the PCN attached again.

Yes the wording is poor -

“ Contravention Code and Description:
Southwark Council believes that a Penalty Charge is payable with respect to the above vehicle for the  following alleged contravention.”
And
“ Contravention Code and Description:
52 m
Failing to comply with a probation of certain types of vehicle (Motor vehicles)”

Hope that helps?
Thanks,
Best

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Enrolme1 on December 22, 2024, 09:26:48 pm
PCN please as there is a wording problem.

Hi Hippocrates,
Thank you for taking time to look into my issue.

I have attached the PCN scan with my posting (Front and back) - isn’t it visible?
Shall I re-attach it again?
Best,
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Enrolme1 on December 22, 2024, 09:21:36 pm
Hi Incandescent,
Thank you for looking at my post.
Yes indeed, I drove from De Crespigny Park (coming from the Kings Hospital end and turned onto Grove Lane towards main road leading to Dog Kennel Hill.
Certainly I do not recall signage on De Cresligny Park and must’ve missed the ones on Grove Lane while manoeuvring…
I looked at the signage and surely is not clear from De Crespigny Park.
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Hippocrates on December 22, 2024, 09:58:43 am
PCN please as there is a wording problem.
Title: Re: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Incandescent on December 22, 2024, 12:13:51 am
So here are the signs, one each side of Grove Lane at the junction with De Crespigny Park.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HXx1RiMAH58QS4De9
A look at previous GSV views shows this is a relatively new restriction, because the signs are not there on the GSV August 2022 view.

Can you please outline your route, for example, did it involve driving along De Crespigny Park, and then turning right, or was it a straight drive down Grove Lane ?  The restriction is because Lyndhurst Primary School lies on Grove Lane between De Crspigny Park, and Windsor Walk, so removes traffic at school entry and exit times.
Title: Southwark- 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition of certain types of vehicle
Post by: Enrolme1 on December 21, 2024, 08:52:29 pm
Hi all!
First time at the new home.
Please help - Southwark cameras on a street with timed prohibition- you can drive at certain times and cannot at others - money making machine  >:( .
I have driven hundreds of times there as I visit the nearby hospital (i am a disabled driver) and never seen the signs and the cameras…
Junction of Grove Lane and De Crespigny Park SE5, London.
Anything I can do to fight that ticket?
I attach the ticket for your conversation.
Please let me know if anything else is needed.
Thank you in advance.

[attachment deleted by admin]