Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: 3Sh3roo on December 20, 2024, 08:48:50 pm

Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: DWMB2 on September 03, 2025, 09:34:04 pm
If you would like advice on your own case please start your own thread.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: AB223 on September 03, 2025, 08:42:49 pm
Hi there all,

I have the same problem with this car park, I wasn't driving the car so have two notices from PE for the same car park.  The first was a few weeks ago, (stupidly) I have informed them of the driver and have until Friday to appeal without the fine escalating to the full amount.  The second has just arrived today and I have done nothing with it yet.

The driver was my son, he is adamant that he put his reg into the tablet in the gym, entitling him to 2 hrs parking.  Since he got the fist ticket he was afraid to go back but i encouraged him and he is absolutely 100% certain that he put the reg in the second time, because he was so wary  of getting another ticket.  That doesn't mean to say that he put it in correctly.  The ntk makes no mention of any of this.

The pics they've provided are of headlights of a car in pitch darkness, the first happened at 11:50pm (its a 24 hr gym), you can't tell from the pics where it was taken.  He has a screenshot of his gym app showing him in the gym at exactly the same time as the tickets, otherwise the gym have been useless.  I don't know if the lights above the sign are on 24hrs but I highly doubt it given this picture.

I could cut and paste some of this fantastic advice in this thread but would welcome your views?  I can send the ntks etc, would I do that with identifiable information out?

Am a bit sick of these parking companies fleecing my kids.  The poor boy got his appeal turned down by Popla at the Mecure Hotel in Chester for simply waiting for someone to come out pf the hotel (not parked, engine on) for 20mins in a car park whose entrance sign blew around in the wind and could only been seen by traffic coming from one direction depending on where the wind had blown it.  I gave them irrefutable evidence of this so not much confidence in popla, so help on these would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on May 08, 2025, 01:18:34 pm
@b789 @DWMB2

Finally got the POPLA appeal today, it took them quite some time but the appeal was successful, thank you so much for your help, nothing but praise for you guys!  :)

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Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on February 17, 2025, 07:55:17 pm
Thank you so much for the time you've taken and preparing the response, it is really appreciated. I have now submitted it.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on February 17, 2025, 04:50:39 pm
Copy and paste the following text into the POPLA webform as your reposes to the operators evidence pack. I ti is wet within the 10,000 character limit and does not have any formatting, only plain text:

Quote
The operator’s evidence pack contains a fundamental flaw that renders their case invalid. The most glaring and obvious flaw is that the operator has not provided evidence of a valid contract flowing from the landowner or their agent at the time of the alleged contravention, 13th December 2024.

1. Lack of Standing / Authority from Landowner

The contract provided by ParkingEye originally commenced on 30th August 2016 and was valid for 24 months, expiring on 29th August 2018. There were no automatic renewal terms, meaning the contract ceased to exist on that date.

The operator then attempts to rely on an "amendment" to this already expired contract, dated 13th September 2021 and signed on 16th September 2021, which states a 36-month term from an undefined "effective date". Even if the latest signature date of 16th September 2021 is assumed as the effective date, this amendment expired on 15th September 2024. The alleged contravention occurred on 13th December 2024, three months after this amendment had expired.

The fact that signage may have remained in situ does not mean that ParkingEye had authority to operate or issue Parking Charge Notices at this location. A contract is a legally binding agreement between parties that sets out the terms of engagement. If the contract has expired, then the operator no longer has legal authority to issue Parking Charge Notices, regardless of whether signs are still in place.

It is not enough for the operator to claim they had permission; they must provide a contract that explicitly confirms they were authorised to issue and enforce Parking Charges on the date of the alleged contravention. Without a valid, in-force contract, ParkingEye had no lawful authority to issue this charge, and as such, the appeal must be upheld.

In addition to the contractual failure, ParkingEye has failed to rebut multiple points raised in the original appeal.

2. Failure to Comply with PoFA Paragraphs 2(2) and 2(3)

The operator is required to provide "adequate notice" of the parking charge through clear and visible signage. The evidence they have submitted does not prove this. The only photos of the signage are dated 28th September 2021, more than three years before the alleged contravention. There is no proof that these signs were still in place, still visible, or even still enforceable in December 2024. The operator has not provided any contemporaneous evidence to confirm that the signage was in the same condition, in the same locations, or even present at all at the time of the alleged contravention.

The operator has also included two computer-generated images of signs, which appear to be stock images, rather than actual photographs taken at the site. Stock images are not valid proof of the signage conditions on the date of the alleged contravention. They provide no confirmation of where the signs were located, whether they were illuminated, or whether they were legible at night. As the alleged contravention occurred at 23:26, the operator must provide evidence that the signage was adequately lit and could be read by a driver in the dark. They have failed to do so.

The failure to provide recent, site-specific photographic evidence means the operator has not met their burden of proof. If the driver could not see or read the terms, then no contract could have been formed, and no parking charge can be enforced.

3. Failure to Comply with PoFA Paragraph 9(2)(c)

PoFA requires that the Notice to Keeper must explain how the parking charge arose and how the requirement to pay was brought to the attention of the driver. The operator has not addressed this point in their evidence pack. They have provided no evidence to demonstrate that the parking charge amount was clearly displayed in a way that would make it enforceable against the driver. There is no proof that the driver passed any signs that contained the relevant terms and conditions or that they had the opportunity to review and accept them before parking. The operator has not rebutted this argument.

4. Failure to Comply with PoFA Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i)

PoFA requires that the Notice to Keeper must explicitly invite the registered keeper to pay the charge or provide the name and address of the driver if they were not the driver. This is a strict statutory requirement and cannot be implied. The fact that the notice is addressed to the keeper does not satisfy PoFA. The law explicitly requires clear wording linking the keeper directly to the payment obligation. The operator has not provided evidence that the NtK meets this requirement. There is no quote from the NtK in their evidence pack that confirms it contains the necessary invitation wording. If the operator cannot prove that the NtK complies with PoFA, then they cannot transfer liability to the registered keeper. The operator has failed to challenge or rebut this point.

5. Appellant Not Being the Liable Individual

The registered keeper is not necessarily the driver, and there is no legal presumption in place that allows an operator to assume this. In VCS v Edward (2023), the court ruled that an operator must provide sufficient evidence to prove that the registered keeper and the driver are the same person. ParkingEye has provided no evidence to link the registered keeper to the driver and has not attempted to rebut this point. If the operator cannot rely on PoFA to transfer liability, then they must provide separate evidence to show that the registered keeper was the driver, which they have failed to do. As a result, they have no lawful basis to pursue the registered keeper.

6. Insufficient Evidence of the Alleged Contravention

The operator relies solely on ANPR images, which only show the vehicle entering and exiting the site. ANPR does not record where the vehicle was parked within the car park, whether it passed any signs, or whether the driver was given the opportunity to review and accept the terms of parking. The operator has provided no evidence to prove that the driver agreed to any contract. They have not rebutted this point.

7. Non-Compliant Signage

The operator claims their signage is compliant, but they have not provided any evidence that the signs were visible, legible, and correctly positioned in December 2024. The signage plan they have included does not prove the condition of the signs at the time of the alleged contravention. There are no maintenance records, audit reports, or up-to-date photographic images to confirm that the signs were still in place and enforceable. The operator has failed to rebut this argument.

In conclusion, ParkingEye has failed to demonstrate that they had a valid contract on the date of the alleged contravention, that their signage was enforceable, that they complied with PoFA, or that they have established liability against the registered keeper. Their evidence does not prove that the driver entered into a contract or that the charge was lawfully issued. As a result, this appeal must be upheld.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on February 17, 2025, 04:07:52 pm
Yes. You respond to the operators evidence pack and point out where they have not answered or rebutted your appeal points. The response is limited to 10,000 characters and cannot be formatted. However, I will put together a response that complies and will fit the POPLA webform for responding to the operators evidence.

For now I am reviewing their evidence and one very glaring and obvious problem they have is that they did not have a valid contract to operate or issue PCNs at the time of the alleged contravention. The copy of the contract, although heavily redacted and the subsequent amendment to it are flawed.

The original contract was from 30th August 2016 and was valid for 24 months with no automatic renewal terms. Therefore the original contract expired on 29th August 2018. Then they provide an "amendment" to this now expired contract, dated 13th September 2021 and signed on 16th September 2021 with a stated term of 36 months valid from the "effective date", without specifying what the "effective date" is, but even assuming it was from the latest of the two signatures, 16th September 2021, that amendment to the already expired contract also expired on 15th September 2024.

The date of the alleged contravention was 13th December 2024!!! So, there was no valid contract in place at the time.

I will get back with all the other rebuttal points but the above will be the primary one unless anyone else who ha had a chance to review it can find any flaw in my points.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on February 17, 2025, 03:01:59 pm
ParkingEye have responded, it's quite lengthy, interestingly they did not mention my response to theirs on 08th Jan'25?

Should I respond with anything on the POPLA website?


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Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on February 10, 2025, 02:30:41 pm
Thanks for the prompt response.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: DWMB2 on February 10, 2025, 02:29:23 pm
"Other"
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on February 10, 2025, 02:22:52 pm
@b789 - Quick question, on POPLA appeals page what reason should I select? I was not the driver?
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on February 08, 2025, 03:25:44 pm
Thanks, once again.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on February 08, 2025, 10:05:27 am
You are not sending anything to ParkingEye. You are sending your POPLA appeal to POPLA (https://popla.pages.dev).

No, you do not need to send the copy of your NtK to POPLA. ParkingEye will send any evidence they wish to rely on and POPLA will forward to you a copy of their response/evidence to your appeal where you can check and see which of your points of appeal they have or have not rebutted or responded to and you will then have an opportunity to respond to their evidence before a decision is made.

Do not worry too much about POPLA. If your appeal is unsuccessful, the decision is not binding on you and there are other steps to take if that s the case.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on February 07, 2025, 10:28:33 pm
Forgot to ask, probably a silly question but I don't want to assume, should I attach the NtK in my appeal as well as the PDF I sent to ParkingEye?
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on February 07, 2025, 09:57:27 pm
Thank you so much for this, I will appeal this tomorrow and no doubt feed back how I get on.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on February 07, 2025, 06:50:02 pm
Use the following to appeal to POPLA:

Quote
POPLA Ref: [Insert POPLA Ref]
ParkingEye PCN Ref: [Insert PCN Number]
VRN: [Insert Vehicle Registration Number]

Appeal Summary:

1. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 2(2).
2. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 2(3).
3. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 9(2)(c).
4. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 9(2)(e)(i).
5. Appellant not being the individual liable.
6. Insufficient evidence of the alleged contravention.
7. Non-compliant signage.
8. Lack of standing/authority from landowner.

1. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 2(2).

PoFA paragraph 2(2) requires that 'adequate notice' of the parking charge be given to drivers. This means the parking operator must ensure that the terms and conditions of parking, including the existence of a parking charge, are clearly communicated through prominently displayed and legible signage.

In this case, ParkingEye has failed to provide adequate notice as required under PoFA. The specific deficiencies include the following:

No clear signage at the entrance:

• There were no prominent signs at the entrance of the premises to indicate that drivers were entering private land subject to specific parking terms and conditions.
• The PPSCoP (Section 2.3) requires operators to ensure that entrance signs are clear and visible to drivers as they enter the parking area. ParkingEye has not provided evidence of compliance with this requirement.

No visible signs at the location where the vehicle was parked:

• There is no evidence that any signage was present in the immediate vicinity of where the vehicle was allegedly parked. Without clear and visible signage at or near the parking location, the driver could not have been aware of any terms, conditions, or potential parking charge.
• The PPSCoP (Section 2.4) requires that parking terms be clearly displayed on signs within the parking area so that drivers can review them before deciding to park. ParkingEye has failed to demonstrate that such signage existed at this location or that it was sufficiently clear.

No signs along the route to the entrance of the premises:

• Even if signage exists elsewhere, ParkingEye has failed to demonstrate that the terms were communicated along the route taken by the vehicle to the entrance. Without sufficient signage along the route, drivers have no opportunity to understand the parking terms before deciding to park.

Inadequate content and positioning of signage:

• If any signage exists, it is insufficient in size, clarity, or content to meet the standards of 'adequate notice.' For example:

• The text may be too small to be read from a driver's position within a vehicle.
• The signs may be poorly lit or placed in locations that are not immediately visible to drivers, particularly given that the alleged contravention occurred at night (23:26).
• The terms and conditions, including the parking charge amount, are often buried in small text, contrary to the PPSCoP (Section 2.4), which requires parking charges to be prominently displayed and clearly legible to drivers.

Without visible, clear, and prominent signage communicating the terms and conditions, ParkingEye cannot claim that the driver was given adequate notice of the parking charge. Consequently:

• No contract could have been formed with the driver. A contract requires clear terms that the driver must knowingly agree to. Without adequate signage, there was no opportunity for the driver to review or accept these terms.
• No liability can be transferred to the registered keeper. PoFA relies on compliance with its strict requirements to transfer liability from the driver to the registered keeper. ParkingEye's failure to meet the notice requirements in paragraph 2(2) invalidates any attempt to hold the registered keeper liable.

ParkingEye has failed to provide any evidence demonstrating compliance with PoFA paragraph 2(2), and therefore, this appeal should be upheld.

2. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 2(3).

Paragraph 2(3) of PoFA clarifies that 'adequate notice' means signs must:

• Clearly specify the parking charge.
• Be positioned so that the charge is brought to the attention of drivers.

In this case, ParkingEye did not display sufficient signage to meet this requirement. The signage is inadequate, illegible, and fails to inform drivers of the terms in a clear and conspicuous manner.

Specifically, there is no evidence that the parking charge amount was prominently displayed in a font size or position that could be reasonably read by a driver from their vehicle. If the charge was buried within dense terms and conditions or displayed in small print, this would fail to meet the standard of 'adequate notice' required by PoFA. Furthermore, signs placed at poor angles, in unlit areas, or obscured by objects would further hinder their visibility and accessibility to drivers.

Without clear, prominent signage that specifies the parking charge and draws the driver's attention to the terms, ParkingEye cannot demonstrate compliance with PoFA paragraph 2(3), nor can they establish that a valid contract was formed with the driver.

3. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 9(2)(c).

PoFA paragraph 9(2)(c) requires the Notice to Keeper (NtK) to describe:

• How the parking charge arose.
• How the requirement to pay was brought to the attention of the driver.

In this case, ParkingEye's NtK fails to meet these requirements. The NtK does not adequately explain the circumstances that led to the parking charge or provide sufficient detail about how the terms and conditions were communicated to the driver.

Given ParkingEye's failure to provide adequate notice as defined in paragraphs 2(2) and 2(3), the NtK fails to establish the link between the alleged breach and the terms displayed on signage. Without this crucial information, the NtK does not comply with PoFA paragraph 9(2)(c). It leaves the registered keeper unable to understand the basis for the charge or verify whether the driver was made aware of the parking terms.

This omission is a fundamental failure in compliance, further invalidating ParkingEye's claim against the registered keeper.

4. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 9(2)(e)(i).

Under Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), the Notice to Keeper (NtK) must include a specific invitation to the keeper to pay the charge. This requirement serves to ensure that the keeper understands their liability and has a clear course of action.

The operator cannot simply rely on the fact that the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) is addressed to the Keeper to satisfy Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of Schedule 4 of PoFA. The law explicitly requires a clear and specific invitation for the keeper to either:

• Pay the parking charge, or
• Provide the name and address of the driver (if the keeper was not the driver).

This is not an "implied" requirement; it must be explicitly stated. Merely inferring that the keeper is invited to pay because the notice is addressed to them does not meet the strict wording requirements of PoFA.

PoFA compliance requires specific wording. The law’s intention is to make the responsibilities of the Keeper clear and unambiguous. Phrases like "you are invited to pay this parking charge" or "you are required to do X, Y, Z" are examples of wording that PoFA expects.

If the notice only says, for example, "the charge must be paid" or "payment is required" without directly inviting the keeper to pay, this is insufficient under PoFA. The wording must link the keeper directly to the payment obligation in an unambiguous way.

The operator cannot claim keeper liability under PoFA if they fail to meet the explicit requirements of 9(2)(e)(i). This is a valid appeal (and defence) point, as courts and independent adjudicators should not rely on implied obligations instead of explicit compliance with statutory requirements.

Additionally, the NtK fails to adequately explain how the parking charge arose and how the requirement to pay was brought to the attention of the driver. ParkingEye has not demonstrated that clear terms were available or visible at the site.

5. Appellant not being the individual liable.

Under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), the operator may only hold the registered keeper liable for an unpaid parking charge if they fully comply with all the requirements outlined in Paragraph 9. As demonstrated in Sections 1 to 4 above, the NtK issued by ParkingEye is non-compliant with PoFA

Since the operator has not complied with PoFA Schedule 4, they cannot transfer liability to the registered keeper.

I put the operator to strict proof that:

• They have fully complied with all the requirements of PoFA Schedule 4, allowing them to transfer liability to the registered keeper.
• The person being pursued (the registered keeper) was, in fact, the driver of the vehicle on the date of the alleged contravention.

There is no presumption in law that the registered keeper was the driver. In VCS v. Edward [2023], it was ruled that the operator must provide sufficient evidence to prove that the registered keeper and the driver are the same person. Without such evidence, the registered keeper cannot be held liable for the charge.

Without evidence of the driver’s identity and given the clear PoFA non-compliance, the operator has no lawful basis to pursue me, the registered keeper, for this charge.

6. Insufficient evidence of the alleged contravention.

The evidence provided by ParkingEye consists solely of ANPR images capturing the vehicle entering and exiting the car park. While ANPR establishes time on site, it does not provide any evidence of where within the car park the vehicle was parked.

ParkingEye has failed to provide:

• Any proof of the specific location where the vehicle was parked within the car park.
• Any evidence demonstrating that the driver passed any signage displaying the parking terms and conditions on their way from the vehicle to the entrance of the premises they were visiting.

The registered keeper contends that the driver did not pass any such signs, meaning they were not given any opportunity to read or accept the terms of parking. Without evidence confirming the exact location of the vehicle in relation to signage, ParkingEye cannot establish that the terms and conditions were adequately brought to the driver’s attention.

As a result, ParkingEye has not sufficiently evidenced that a contravention occurred, and this appeal must be upheld.

7. Non-compliant signage.

The signage at the car park does not meet the requirements set out in the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP), which mandates that signage must be clear, legible, and positioned in a way that ensures drivers are properly informed of the terms and conditions before they park.

In this case, ParkingEye has failed to meet these fundamental requirements for contract formation. Specifically:

• The terms and conditions are not prominently displayed nor clearly legible.

• Signs must be placed in locations where drivers can easily read them before committing to parking. If the text is too small, obscured, or positioned in areas that drivers are unlikely to notice, it fails to meet the requirements of the PPSCoP.
• ParkingEye has not provided evidence that the signage was positioned in such a way that it was readable from the vehicle’s parking location or along the route taken by the driver.

• The parking charge amount is not visible at a glance and is buried in small text.

• The PPSCoP requires that the core terms, including the parking charge amount, be prominent and easy to read. If this information is buried within a large block of text or printed in a font size that is too small, it does not constitute ‘adequate notice’ as required under PoFA and the PPSCoP.

• There is no evidence that signage is adequately illuminated or visible at night, despite the alleged contravention occurring at 23:26.

• The PPSCoP states that signage must be readable under all conditions, including low-light environments. If the site is not adequately lit, ParkingEye must provide evidence that its signage is illuminated or designed with high-contrast reflective materials to remain visible at night.
• ParkingEye has provided no proof that signage at this location meets these visibility standards.

Since signage forms the basis of any alleged parking contract, and ParkingEye has not demonstrated that the driver was provided with clear and sufficient notice of the terms, no contract was formed. Consequently, no liability can arise from the alleged breach, and this appeal must be upheld.

8. Lack of standing/authority from landowner.

The operator is also put to strict proof, by means of contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority flowing from the landholder of the "relevant land" to the operator. It is not accepted that the operator has adhered to the landholder's definitions, exemptions, grace period, hours of operation, etc. and any instructions to cancel charges due to complaints. There is no evidence that the freeholder authorises this operator to issue parking charges or what the land enforcement boundary and start/expiry dates are, nor whether this operator has standing to enforce such charges in their own name rather than a bare licence to act as an agent ‘on behalf of’ the landowner.

The operator is also put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice. As this operator does not have proprietary interest in the “relevant land” then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner. The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only). Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules.

A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement.


Conclusion:
ParkingEye has failed to demonstrate compliance with PoFA 2012, BPA or the new joint BPA/IPC Single Code of Practice, or basic evidentiary standards. They have not established keeper liability or proven the alleged contravention.

For these reasons, I respectfully request that POPLA uphold my appeal and instruct ParkingEye to cancel this Parking Charge Notice.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on February 07, 2025, 02:55:39 pm
Yes, I did send that as a PDF attachment, I have followed all your guidance.

Please see their letter below, I've not attached P4-6 as that is POPLA guidelines. Interestingly they are claiming that they are not in receipt of any further correspondence or evidence to confirm the terms were breached, though I sent your draft.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on February 07, 2025, 02:43:55 pm
Don't sound so surprised that they rejected your appeal. Why would they accept it when there's no chance of any money for them if they do?

Did you send the response to their initial query I suggested on 8th January? Also, can we please see what they put in their rejection letter?

You have 33 days from the date of the appeal rejection to submit a POPLA appeal, so no rush.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on February 07, 2025, 12:47:46 pm
The robbers have rejected my appeal and issued a POPLA code, I've never gone through this process, can you please advise what to do next, is my appeal going to be same PDF letter I sent to ParkingEye?
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on February 06, 2025, 01:40:45 pm
Thanks for that, I was looking for another email address but the link you supplied was helpful, though their auto-response advises a response within 28days.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on February 06, 2025, 01:31:19 pm
So, submit your response using their inline complaints form where you can also upload PDF attachments etc:

https://www.parkingeye.co.uk/motorist/complaints/form/
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on February 06, 2025, 12:59:09 pm
After sending the email to info@parkingeye.co.uk, I got the following postmaster error, I did not get this last time on 08th Jan'25:

-------
info@parkingeye.co.uk only accepts messages from people in its organization or on its allowed senders list, and your email address isn't on the list.
-------
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on February 06, 2025, 12:05:52 am
Email them and remind them of their obligation under the PPSCoP to respond to complaints within 28 days.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on February 05, 2025, 06:25:31 pm
It's been 28 calendar days since I emailed the PDF attachment to ParkingEye, they haven't responded, should I just sit tight?
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on January 08, 2025, 05:56:41 pm
Thanks once again, just sent it as a pdf to that email address.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on January 08, 2025, 05:31:19 pm
Email the letter as a PDF attachment to info@parkingeye.co.uk and also CC in yourself.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on January 08, 2025, 05:23:47 pm
Thanks, I will respond to them, interestingly they sent the email from a no-reply email address and on their website they don't share an email address, clearly trying to make it difficult as possible.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on January 08, 2025, 04:55:06 pm
Personally, I prefer to engage with them and force them to respond to the points raised. All the more chance they will have to spend time and effort dealing with you.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on January 08, 2025, 04:50:44 pm
Thanks for the prompt response, in your expert opinion which is the best option? Ignore or respond?
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on January 08, 2025, 04:38:31 pm
You could either ignore it and wait for the POPLA code or you can respond with the following:

Quote
Subject: Response to PCN No. [Insert PCN Number]

Dear ParkingEye,

I acknowledge receipt of your correspondence dated [insert date] in response to my appeal regarding PCN No. [PCN Number]. I write to reiterate my position as the registered keeper of the vehicle and to address your request for further information.

As I have already stated, I was not the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged parking contravention. I am under no legal obligation to provide the driver's identity, and I decline to do so.

Your response references paragraph 9(2)(b) and paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). However, I must stress that for you to rely on these provisions to claim keeper liability, your Notice to Keeper (NtK) must fully comply with all other requirements of PoFA, which I outlined in my appeal.

Specifically:

1. Failure to Include an Invitation to Pay (Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i)):

Your NtK fails to include a clear and unambiguous invitation for the keeper to pay the parking charge, as required under PoFA. This is a critical omission that renders the NtK non-compliant.

2. Inadequate Signage (Paragraphs 2(2) and 2(3)):

As noted in my initial appeal, your signage does not meet the standards required under PoFA, BPA, or IPC codes of practice. Without sufficient signage to communicate terms to the driver, your claim against the registered keeper is invalid.

3. Failure to Explain How the Parking Charge Was Brought to the Driver’s Attention (Paragraph 9(2)(c)):

Your NtK does not provide sufficient detail about how the terms and conditions of parking were made clear to the driver, particularly given the issues with signage.

4. Strict PoFA Compliance is Mandatory:

PoFA requires strict compliance with all statutory requirements. Partial compliance is insufficient to establish liability on the part of the registered keeper.

Given the above points, I maintain that ParkingEye has no lawful basis to pursue the registered keeper for payment of this Parking Charge Notice.

I also remind you of your obligation to either accept my appeal or provide me with a POPLA verification code to escalate this matter to independent adjudication. Your letter has not addressed the substantive points I raised regarding your failure to comply with PoFA, and I expect a substantive response within the 28-day hold period you referenced.

Should you fail to cancel this PCN or issue a POPLA code, I will escalate this matter further, including complaints to the British Parking Association (BPA) and other relevant authorities.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Full Name]
Registered Keeper
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on January 08, 2025, 04:22:41 pm
Hi, I got the following email from Parking eye, can you  please advise what to do next:

------------
Reference: Parking Charge Notice - xxxxxxxxx

Dear Sir / Madam,

Thank you for your correspondence in relation to the Parking Charge incurred on 13
December 2024 at 23:26, at Centurion Point - Chester car park.

We are writing to advise you that your recent appeal has been referred for further
information.

You have stated that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the date and time of the
breach of the terms and conditions of the car park, but you have not indicated who was.
You have already been notified that under section 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection
of Freedoms Act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking
charge in full. As we do not know the driver’s name or current postal address, if you were
not the driver at the time, you should tell us the full name and the current postal
address of the driver.

You are warned that if, after 29 days from the Date of Issue, the parking charge has not
been paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we
have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you, the registered
keeper. This warning is given to you under paragraph 9(2)(f) of schedule 4 of the
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable
conditions under schedule 4 of that Act.

Please note, if you have made or wish to make an appeal on behalf of the driver, and you
do not provide the full name and current postal address of the driver, Parkingeye will be
obliged to deal with the representations made in your name.

Parkingeye have placed this charge on hold for 28 days to enable you to provide the
evidence requested. If this information is not provided within 28 days, the appeal may well
be rejected and a POPLA code provided.Parkingeye Limited, 40 Eaton Avenue Buckshaw Village, Chorley, PR7 7NA, Registered in England, Registration No. 5134454

Alternatively, payment can be made by telephoning our offices on 0330 555 4444 or by
visiting www.parkingeye.co.uk or by posting a cheque or postal order to ParkingEye Ltd,
PO Box 117, Blyth, NE24 9EJ.
Yours faithfully,

Parkingeye Team
------------

Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on December 26, 2024, 08:11:42 pm
So the gym responded and suggested that the driver log into his account on their app where they can find the date, entrance/exit time and use that as part of the appeal.

Is it worth sharing this as well with  Parkingeye, considering the previous appeal has already been filed?
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on December 23, 2024, 12:19:03 am
Thank you so much for this, I have filed the appeal on their website with the information above. No doubt I will update when I have it, I will also share a pic of the signage when I have it.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on December 22, 2024, 11:32:51 pm
You appeal as the Keeper as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
Re: Parking Charge Notice (PCN) No. [PCN no.]
Vehicle Registration No: [VRM]
Issue Date: [issue date]


I am appealing as the registered keeper of the vehicle, and I would like to emphasise that I was not the driver on the date of the alleged contravention. I am under no legal obligation to provide the driver’s details, and I decline to do so.

ParkingEye (PE) has failed to comply with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, which are necessary to hold the keeper liable. I outline the following points of non-compliance:

1. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 2(2):

PoFA paragraph 2(2) states that 'adequate notice' of the parking charge must be given to drivers. In this case, no adequate notice was provided. There were no visible signs at the entrance, at the location where the vehicle was parked, or along the route to the entrance of the premises, communicating the parking terms and conditions.

2. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 2(3):

Paragraph 2(3) further clarifies that 'adequate notice' means signs must clearly specify the parking charge and be positioned in such a way that the charge is brought to the attention of drivers. In this case, PE did not display sufficient signage to meet this requirement.

3. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 9(2)(c):

PoFA paragraph 9(2)(c) requires that the Notice to Keeper describe how the parking charge arose and how the requirement to pay was brought to the attention of the driver. Given that PE has failed to provide adequate notice as defined in paragraphs 2(2) and 2(3), the Notice to Keeper does not comply with this requirement. PE’s partial or substantial compliance with PoFA is insufficient to establish keeper liability, as full compliance with all PoFA requirements is mandatory.

4. Failure to comply with POFA paragraph 9)2)(e)(i):
This paragraph mandates that for a parking operator to hold the vehicle's registered keeper liable for a parking charge, the Notice to Keeper (NtK) must include:

• An "Invitation to Pay": The notice must explicitly invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges.

• Exact Wording: The wording must clearly convey this invitation and mere implication or indirect suggestions are insufficient. The act requires strict compliance, meaning that any failure to fully incorporate this invitation renders the notice non-compliant with the requirements of PoFA 2012.

In addition, should PE reject my appeal, I will expect you to provide the following evidence to POPLA:

• A detailed layout of the car park showing the location of all signage.

• Proof of the exact location where the vehicle was parked, and how this relates to any signage.

• Evidence that the signage used to display the parking terms and conditions is fully compliant with the British Parking Association (BPA) and Independent Parking Committee  (IPC) Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP).

PE will be put to strict proof of the vehicle’s parking location and the relationship of that location to any signs passed between the parking space and the premises entrance.

In light of these clear breaches of PoFA and the inadequate signage, I request that the Parking Charge Notice be cancelled.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on December 22, 2024, 10:33:19 pm
Honestly, I don't know what to do, hence why I'm on this forum asking for advice. I've scoured other threads, can I therefore assume that I should send an email to them citing the lack of compliance with PoFA 9(2)(e)(i), do you happen to have a stock email/letter I can send? Is one of the stock letters that you or @DWMB2 have advised applicable, like the below:

Dear Sirs,

I have received your Parking Charge Notice (Ref: ________) for vehicle registration mark ____ ___, in which you allege that the driver has incurred a parking charge. I note from your correspondence that you are not seeking to hold me liable as the registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("The Act"). You have chosen not to issue a Notice to Keeper in accordance with The Act, and it is now too late for you to do so.

There is no obligation for me to name the driver and I will not be doing so. I am therefore unable to help you further with this matter, and look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you must issue a POPLA code.

Yours,

Thanks.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on December 22, 2024, 10:26:11 pm
Why would you "share" the drivers details when the PCN does not fully comply with PoFA which means that only the unknown driver can be liable?
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on December 22, 2024, 07:59:22 pm
Thanks, so should I share the drivers details or wait until firstly we get a clearer image of the sign, secondly feedback from the gym, at least until 14days from issuance to avoid it increasing from £60 to £100.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on December 22, 2024, 05:34:39 pm
What others have done regarding PCNs, especially those issued by ParkingEye, is irrelevant. Whilst they may brag about "ignoring" them, I can assure you that ignoring a PCN since 2012 is not advisable. The operator has up to 6 years to initiate litigation over a disputed PCN.

Famous last words we often hear here are " I was told to ignore the PCN nut I now have a default CCJ that I knew nothing about."
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on December 22, 2024, 05:06:43 pm
I'm still waiting for an image of the sign, I don't live in Chester so I'm waiting for the driver to go back there and take a pic, they have also contacted the gym via email so waiting for feedback, they do have evidence on their app of the time they were at the gym.

in the meanwhile, is there anything else I should do to mitigate this, I am told by the driver other gym users have received such charges but have totally ignored them???
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: DWMB2 on December 20, 2024, 11:15:42 pm
That first term underneath the 30 minutes warning looks like it might reference a need to provide one's vehicle reg, but as you note a clearer image will be necessary.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on December 20, 2024, 11:01:00 pm
There is a terminal and the driver enters the cars details each time, I'm going to have to get a clearer image of the sign, I don't think it mentions it anywhere ref the VRM...

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Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on December 20, 2024, 10:04:22 pm
If they can park there for 2 hours and the signs only sa 30 minutes, then is there a requirement for the driver to enter the VRM into a terminal at the Gym in order to permit this time extension?

If so, is there any mention of this on the signs?
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on December 20, 2024, 09:54:56 pm
The driver went to the gym, it is that site and if you move across the signs can be seen, however according to the gym they can park there for 2hrs. I've asked the driver to contact the gym and ask them to help clarify this and get the charge cancelled.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on December 20, 2024, 09:39:40 pm
Where is "Centurion Point" Chester? I am unable,e to find any car park by that name. According to Google Maps, Centurion Point is the name of a building in Chester.

(https://i.imgur.com/K6FqeNO.jpeg) (https://maps.app.goo.gl/3o9CKJ5Evdyg9vQW7)

If the location is not definitively stated or cannot be easily found on a map, then the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA. Additionally, the NtK does not comply with the requirements of PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) as there is no invitation for the Keeper to pay the charge.

If the the location I've linked to above is correct, why did the driver remain on site for longer than 30 minutes? Is the light next to the entrance sign working? Which of the premises was the driver visiting? Which parking spot was the vehicle parked in? Is it possible that the driver never passed a sign with the terms and conditions from the location they parked in and the premises they visited? Have you approached the company you visited to ask them to get the PCN cancelled?
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on December 20, 2024, 09:15:20 pm
Please reduce the file size of those images. Total waste of electrons trying to open jpg images that only need to be a few hundred Kb, not over 3Mb and 5MB respectively.

Done, sorry really new to this.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on December 20, 2024, 09:08:53 pm
Please reduce the file size of those images. Total waste of electrons trying to open jpg images that only need to be a few hundred Kb, not over 3Mb and 5MB respectively.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on December 20, 2024, 09:02:44 pm
Thanks for prompt response, adjusted the images to reflect dates/times. Also to add more as, according to the charge the driver stayed longer than 30 mins, I've checked on google maps and it does state on the signs max stay 30mins, whereas I am told inside the gym they advise max stay as 2hrs.

As a first point I've advised the driver to contact the gym and discuss this.
Title: Re: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: b789 on December 20, 2024, 08:53:26 pm
Leave all dates and time showing if you want advice.
Title: Parking Charge Notice - Centurion Point Chester
Post by: 3Sh3roo on December 20, 2024, 08:48:50 pm
Hello,

I've received this notice, someone else was driving my car (legally) and swears that they entered the car details in the computer, got a message advising the vehicle has been logged, they attend a gym there regularly.

Can anyone please advise what my options are? Should I just ignore?

[attachment deleted by admin]