Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: megaman on December 17, 2024, 02:38:37 am

Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: cp8759 on March 21, 2025, 12:44:29 am
Quote from: H C Andersen on March 20, 2025, 09:44:16 am
Out of interest, what happened to the Charge Certificate?
When the tribunal issues a scheduling letter confirming that the PCN will be considered at an appeal, any outstanding charge certificate, order for recovery and warrant is automatically cancelled. Regardless of whether we think that this is or isn't what the legislation provides for, that's what happens with every single authority, no exceptions.

And obviously if you win the appeal then the PCN falls away, and so does any other document the council has issued.

There is an argument that could be made which says that the charge certificate was validly served and the appeal only pauses enforcement, rather than revering the penalty to the pre-charge certificate stage, but apparently no council has thought of that and I'm not going to tell them.
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: stamfordman on March 20, 2025, 09:52:32 am
As I thought, they couldn't demonstrate it's a properly signed CPZ.
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: H C Andersen on March 20, 2025, 09:44:16 am
Out of interest, what happened to the Charge Certificate?
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: cp8759 on March 20, 2025, 08:20:30 am
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aC4tw6nmSSzKmGjYFaoCCZmPpSgXSRDZ/view).
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: cp8759 on January 23, 2025, 08:17:39 pm
@megaman at this point the next step is the tribunal, an out of time appeal will normally be allowed in if you can evidence that you received the Notice of Rejection late, and if you only got it by email today then you're still within 28 days of the date of service as the Notice of Rejection was only served today. I'm going to drop you a PM in case you'd like me to represent you.
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: stamfordman on January 23, 2025, 01:23:17 pm
Boarding/alighting isn't claimed in this case though.

I think Redbridge will fail to demonstrate this is a properly signed CPZ and it hasn't said anything about this in its rejection.
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: Incandescent on January 23, 2025, 11:51:06 am
The last paragraph contains a fundamental misstatement of the law. There is no requirement in law for the driver to remain with the vehicle when boarding/alighting passengers. Many appeals have been won on this point when the driver is assisting persons to/from a place of safety.
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: megaman on January 23, 2025, 11:46:01 am
@cp8759 this is the reply I got from the council.

Good Morning,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Please see attached response to your representation which was posted to you.

 

Please advise on what your intention is regarding this case.

 

Regards,

 

Business Administrator

Parking Management

 

London Borough of Redbridge

(https://i.imgur.com/VZkF4hA.jpeg)
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: cp8759 on January 22, 2025, 12:57:39 pm
@megaman good, please contact the council urgently and ask them if a Notice of Rejection has been issued, if it has please ask them for the date that it was issued. Also ask if they can send you a copy.

Separately to that, make a subject access request (https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/make-a-subject-access-request/) asking for a copy of all correspondence sent and received in respect of the PCN.
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: megaman on January 22, 2025, 12:51:03 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on January 22, 2025, 12:43:14 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on December 17, 2024, 11:24:59 pm
Send the representation online and take a screenshot of the confirmation page.
@megaman did you do this?

Please don't tell me you sent them a letter in the post?

Yes I made representation online and I did take screenshot, also I have email confirmation of the representation I made. and No I never send a letter by post.
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: John U.K. on January 22, 2025, 12:48:33 pm
Did you submit exactly as CP suggested? Did you get any knd of receipt or acknowledgement?

The next stage in the process is outlined here:
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-notic/

Followed correctly, without missing any deadlines, should lead to the PCN being reset to the NtO stage.

-------
EDIT
Crossed with CP's and HCA's posts.
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: H C Andersen on January 22, 2025, 12:45:16 pm
(crossed with previous post)

NTO dated 12 Dec;
On 18th you posted that you were going to make reps as suggested;
CC dated 20 Jan. By virtue of the timings this implies that reps were not made.

How and when did you submit reps?
Did you receive a response?
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: cp8759 on January 22, 2025, 12:43:14 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on December 17, 2024, 11:24:59 pm
Send the representation online and take a screenshot of the confirmation page.
@megaman did you do this?

Please don't tell me you sent them a letter in the post?
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: megaman on January 22, 2025, 12:31:51 pm
I received a charge certificate today.

(https://i.imgur.com/COpYMmz.jpg)

This is getting ridiculous, they don't want to let it go. I think the only way this is going to get resolved is by taking my case to tribunal. any advice on taking the next steps is much appreciated. @cp8759
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: stamfordman on December 18, 2024, 10:32:49 am
This is supposed to be a controlled zone as there are entry signs but Redbridge has made a big mess of this as I don't think there is a traffic order for the zone; it's not marked on their order map; they've had a permit parking zone as an order for whole or part of Empress Avenue...

If it were to go to the tribunal I doubt they can produce evidence as these two cases show.

-----------

Case reference   2180303142
Authority   London Borough of Redbridge

Contravention date   08 May 2018
Contravention time   13:05:00
Contravention location   Empress Avenue
Penalty amount   GBP 110.00
Contravention   Parked restricted street during prescribed hours
   
Decision Date   27 Sep 2018
Adjudicator   Teresa Brennan
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.

Reasons   Mr Fageyinbo attended today. He appeals as he states that there were no signs in Empress Avenue to indicate that parking was restricted. The local authority states that Empress Avenue is in a controlled parking zone operational from 08:30 to 6.30pm Monday to Saturday.
The local authority has not provided any photographs of Controlled Parking Zone entry signs or any map showing where any signs are located.
I am not satisfied on the evidence I have seen that the appellant’s car was parked within a clearly signed Controlled Parking Zone.
I allow this appeal.

------------

Case reference   2230235401
Authority   London Borough of Redbridge

Contravention date   11 Feb 2023
Contravention time   15:40:00
Contravention location   Empress Avenue
Penalty amount   GBP 110.00
Contravention   Parked restricted street during prescribed hours
   
Decision Date   09 Jun 2023
Adjudicator   John Lane
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons   I am satisfied by the contemporaneous evidence before me that the vehicle was parked on a yellow line.
A yellow line is a warning that there are waiting restrictions at that place.
The local authority has stated this is a controlled parking zone and has provided photographic evidence of signs.
The appellant has appealed on the basis that the contravention did not occur and that there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the local authority.
The local authority has not provided a plan of the zone and the position of the road within the zone.
As this forms part of the issue of the appeal I will allow the appellant’s appeal.
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: megaman on December 18, 2024, 12:02:22 am
Quote from: cp8759 on December 17, 2024, 11:24:59 pm
@megaman well this is potentially very simple:

Dear London Borough of Redbridge,

I challenge liability on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur, this is because the CEO's photos do not show any contravention at all.

Yours faithfully,


Please do not be tempted to add anything further, I've already had one case this week go to the tribunal where the best evidence that can be used against the motorist is stuff they've put in the representations. Send the representation online and take a screenshot of the confirmation page.

If you have any mitigation that is wholly unrelated to the contravention itself, please let me know before you submit the representation and I can add something about that.

I am happy to know that I did not break the parking rules. Thank you, I will do as you advised, and I don't have anything that is unrelated to the contravention itself.
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: cp8759 on December 17, 2024, 11:24:59 pm
@megaman well this is potentially very simple:

Dear London Borough of Redbridge,

I challenge liability on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur, this is because the CEO's photos do not show any contravention at all.

Yours faithfully,


Please do not be tempted to add anything further, I've already had one case this week go to the tribunal where the best evidence that can be used against the motorist is stuff they've put in the representations. Send the representation online and take a screenshot of the confirmation page.

If you have any mitigation that is wholly unrelated to the contravention itself, please let me know before you submit the representation and I can add something about that.
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: megaman on December 17, 2024, 11:04:37 pm
yes name and address is correct on the NTO letter. The route i took to my parking place was from The Drive to Empress Avenue, and there is no cpz as per below entry sign.

(https://i.imgur.com/L7jRoYs.jpg)
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: megaman on December 17, 2024, 10:44:36 pm
Quote from: H C Andersen on December 17, 2024, 10:35:17 am
My story is I was received a PCN by post because I left my car parked on single yellow on a Saturday,

The NTO states clearly that a PCN was served on the vehicle, not by post.

Pl clarify.

You've got until 12 Jan. 2026 to submit reps so take your time and take it one step at a time posting all docs requested.

my bad, i did receive the pcn ticket on my vehicle windscreen, i'm so forgetful, i was wondering why i couldn't find the letter because there wasn't one lol.
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: stamfordman on December 17, 2024, 11:02:43 am
So you challenged the PCN and didn't get a rejection. As said you can at least recover the discount with reps.

Are the name and address on the NTO correct.

As for the contravention this is a controlled zone as per the below entry sign - what was your route to your parking place?

We've had issues with Redbridge before on these zones - they are not included on its CPZ map as they contain no residential bays only yellow lines.

(https://i.ibb.co/HBL5cY8/Screenshot-2024-12-17-at-10-58-46.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/f2Y0tGc/red3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/X5zLvyz/red2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/FhyfcG6/red1.jpg)
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: H C Andersen on December 17, 2024, 10:35:17 am
My story is I was received a PCN by post because I left my car parked on single yellow on a Saturday,

The NTO states clearly that a PCN was served on the vehicle, not by post.

Pl clarify.

You've got until 12 Jan. 2026 to submit reps so take your time and take it one step at a time posting all docs requested.
Title: Re: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: Incandescent on December 17, 2024, 10:10:09 am
You must respond to the NtO. If you look on your PCN it will say something about this, (please post it, all side3s). So resubmit your original reps and add that you submitted a challenge but have not received a response. Remind them that they state that rejections of challenges will also reoffer the discount.

Please read this and update your thread as necessary.
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

No signs by yellow lines means you are usually in a CPZ, so look on the Redbridge website. These zones can be very large so you probably missed the sign while driving along.

Title: Redbridge Council - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
Post by: megaman on December 17, 2024, 02:38:37 am
Hi,

Please I would appreciate it if I can get some advice on how to deal with my case.@cp8759

My story is I was received a PCN by post because I left my car parked on single yellow on a Saturday, and the street I parked at was Empress Avenue in Ilford. The reason I left my car parked there was because there wasn't any CPZ and signs throughout the whole of Empress Avenue, so I thought it would be ok.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/6d2kFCKuJ7ixK18G7

I made a appeal to Redbrigde council website and I didn't hear back from them within 14 days, so I thought maybe they forgot about it but maybe 28 days later I received another letter by post, this time its a notice to owner, demanding the full £130 charge. I did not receive a response to my appeal or receive a notice of rejection letter.

(https://i.imgur.com/yqKbny3.jpg)