Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Guvner on June 18, 2023, 03:26:05 pm
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Done, thanks for the guidance throughout. I shall now close this thread.
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If the discount is on offer you might want to take it, it would be a gamble to carry on.
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Meanwhile for the other PCN, they rejected it. So different responses for the different PCNs with the same appeal?
Also got more paperwork about my right to appeal further and how to do it, but seems generic.
What now?
You might as well file an appeal with the tribunal as the discount has not been reoffered, and the penalty stays the same even if the appeal is lost. You can file an appeal online at https://londontribunals.org.uk/ and you can add yourself to the case as your mother's representative, you will just need her to sign a letter of authority.
I think it has though if you look at the paragraph underneath it? I still have it when I go to pay online for both. Is it worth just paying them now? Their actual response seems to be identical to others on here recently, and if there isn't anything in that, then I think this is a dead end.
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Meanwhile for the other PCN, they rejected it. So different responses for the different PCNs with the same appeal?
Also got more paperwork about my right to appeal further and how to do it, but seems generic.
What now?
You might as well file an appeal with the tribunal as the discount has not been reoffered, and the penalty stays the same even if the appeal is lost. You can file an appeal online at https://londontribunals.org.uk/ and you can add yourself to the case as your mother's representative, you will just need her to sign a letter of authority.
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Just got this back. I left my name at the bottom when my mother is the registered keeper of this vehicle.
Can I send in representations again? Or is it too late now as it is over 28 days now, and just pay it? Should still have the discounted rate right?
Send the representation again.
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Meanwhile for the other PCN, they rejected it. So different responses for the different PCNs with the same appeal?
Also got more paperwork about my right to appeal further and how to do it, but seems generic.
What now?
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Just got this back. I left my name at the bottom when my mother is the registered keeper of this vehicle.
Can I send in representations again? Or is it too late now as it is over 28 days now, and just pay it? Should still have the discounted rate right?
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How did it go OP?
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Station bridge Barking is a cash cow for the council. From Cambridge road you can only turn left then right into a car park. Turn left is buses, bikes and taxis only. There's been several cases on the old forum if you care to have a quick search. Entry from the opposite end is just as perilous.
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I have now done that thank you. I shall update this thread when anything else arrives from them.
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You might as well copy and paste the representation.
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here is that one, the file uploader on here isn't working so here is a Drive link (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JZQQ5dzabBmMO_Ge2-cvScuxbV0Jnirw?usp=sharing).
As this one was sent first, the appeal I put above is what I sent to this one. I am asking for the one that started this thread whether or not to copy and paste it directly or to rephrase it slightly so they cannot copy and paste their response as well.
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The one that was posted on the Facebook group, same formatting as this PCN I believe but from the day before.
Post it on here so everything's in one place please.
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The one that was posted on the Facebook group, same formatting as this PCN I believe but from the day before.
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For my other PCN, shall I send in that very same appeal format? Or change the phrasing here and there?
What other PCN, I'm not sure we've seen it?
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Felt like my best bet though personally as my actual reasoning as to why would be ignored as they would say I am ultimately responsible in this case. Just submitted it so shall update this thread with the response.
For my other PCN, shall I send in that very same appeal format? Or change the phrasing here and there?
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The representation is misconceived because the periods stated on the PCN are correct. On the other hand you might as well send something, if they're lucky they might mess up the response.
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Here is what I have:
Dear London Borough of Barking and Dagenham,
Having received your PCN, I would like to make a representation as the penalty charge exceeds the amount applicable in the circumstances of this case, based on the following provision within the relevant legislation and the resulting contradiction regarding the 28-day periods as follows.
Section 4 of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 provides, insofar as is relevant, that:
A penalty charge notice under this section must –
(a) state–
…
(iii) that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
…
(v) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
However, it has come to my attention that the PCN I received fails to comply with the statutory requirements. The PCN provides two different 28-day periods, one starting from the “date of notice” and the other one from the “date of service of notice”, which occurs two days later. Therefore, as this terminology is not interchangeable, this inconsistency raises further doubt about the validity of the PCN and the associated financial liability. While it might be thought that this error on the PCN is in the recipient’s favour as prejudice is not established, I refer you to London Borough of Barnet Council, R (on the application of) v The Parking Adjudicator [2006] EWHC 2357 (Admin) where the High Court ruled as follows:
40. Let me now turn to the present case. The two PCNs issued by the parking attendant in Barnet on 31st March 2005 both showed the date of the contravention. Neither PCN showed the date of the notice. The date on which the notice was issued ought to have been shown as a separate entry on the notice. On this ground alone, I hold that neither PCN achieved substantial compliance with section 66 of the 1991 Act.
41. Mr Lewis submits that even if there was non -compliance in this respect, nevertheless no prejudice was caused. PCNs should not be regarded as invalid. I do not accept this submission. Prejudice is irrelevant and does not need to be established. The 1991 Act creates a scheme for the civil enforcement of parking control. Under this scheme, motorists become liable to pay financial penalties when certain specified statutory conditions are met. If the statutory conditions are not met, then the financial liability does not arise.
42. In the present case, the two PCNs issued by Barnet on 31st March 2005 did not comply with section 66(3)(с),(d) and (e) of the 1991 Act. Accordingly, the requirements of section 66 were not satisfied and no financial liability was triggered either by the PCN or by any subsequent stage in the process such as the notice to owner.
In this case, the PCN has been served under the 2003 Act, but the principle is the same: the PCN is not substantially compliant with the requirements of the statutory scheme because it does not state what the Act requires it to state, and it follows that no liability to pay the penalty charge can arise. It is imperative that the PCN adheres to the clear and unambiguous requirements outlined in the legislation to ensure fair enforcement of penalty charges.
Considering the above, the only penalty that may be demanded is nil and the PCN must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
Name
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Please post a draft on here before sending it off.
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The signs look clear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MecNmzWPMuo
Did you not know what they mean, or did you just miss them completely?
After the first time I drove down here (following Google Maps and focusing on the road), I just did not notice these there after. I did notice the sign that came before these not allowing heavy vehicles except buses, but this one was halfway down the road, with the only alternative being a car park?
I am going to make an appeal trying to argue the difference in 28 day periods, as I believe that has more of a chance than what I have stated previously, because I understand that it does ultimately comes down to the driver, not the sat nav, and disregarding that first instance where I was focusing on the road with pedestrians crossing everywhere and another domestic vehicle in front of me as well.
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The signs look clear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MecNmzWPMuo
Did you not know what they mean, or did you just miss them completely?
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Hi all, just got this second PCN in the post yesterday after being in Barking last week; a place I was not familiar with at all. I was staying in a flat just around the corner from this road (Cambridge Road) and Google Maps took me down this route every time I needed to move my car to the parking spot I had (St Thomas Gardens) I’ve seen online that this is one of the worst spots for fines. I drove down here a few times so I’m going to assume I will be getting more… Any help is much appreciated.
Here is the the evidence they have uploaded including the video: Evidence (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1114TM-XkzYNUdkeHxQygaLRaIfgAgGp0?usp=sharing)
Thanks in advance.
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