Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: poklepi on December 10, 2024, 04:16:49 pm
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Ditto.
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Well done.
+1
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Well done.
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Hey all,
I wanted to provide an update. On 27/12/2024, I received a letter confirming that the PCN has been "withdrawn due to a technical error. This error occurred when the details of the contravention were recorded."
They tried and did not succeed this time :)
Thanks again for all your help and advice!
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I submitted the following today:
Re: PCN HZ78003061 dated 08/12/2024, served at Michael Road
To whom it may concern,
I am writing to formally challenge the above-mentioned PCN on the grounds
that the alleged contravention did not occur. The vehicle was not parked in a
residents' or shared-use parking bay when the PCN was issued.
I have attached photographic evidence comparing the position of the vehicle.
By analyzing both the images taken by the Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO)
and subsequent images taken of the vehicle in the same location, it is clear
that the vehicle was parked entirely outside the parking bay and on a single
yellow line.
To provide further clarity:
1.Position in Relation to the Parking Bay:
Upon increasing the brightness and adjusting other parameters of the CEO’s
images, the white line marking the boundary of the parking bay is visible in the
lower-left corner.
The position of the vehicle, as shown in both the CEO's photographs and my
own, confirms that the vehicle was parked outside the parking bay.
2.Reference to Surrounding Landmarks:
The placement of the car relative to the adjacent wooden panels and the
residential building across the street further supports the fact that the vehicle
was outside the parking bay, stopped on a single yellow line.
From the images, it can be seen that the parking bay ends approximately
halfway along the tenth wooden panel. Both the CEO’s and my own
photographs show the vehicle at this location, further confirming it was not
within the parking bay.
Given this evidence, it is clear that the PCN issued under Code 12S is
incorrect. The vehicle was temporarily stopped on a single yellow line and not
within a residents' or shared-use parking bay.
I kindly request that this PCN be cancelled based on the provided evidence.
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HC Andersen,
As you can see, the parking bay ends approximately halfway at the tenth panel, where the single yellow line begins. I’ve included a comparison image, which you can view here: https://imgur.com/SzP7k4f.
By comparing the two images, it’s evident that my vehicle was parked entirely outside the parking bay and on the single yellow line. The position can be clearly determined by observing the white line and the car’s placement in relation to the panels.
The rest of the images are available here: https://imgur.com/a/S3smQOL.
What are your thoughts?
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I understand the sentiment, but faced with such a defence the authority would simply refer to the CEO's notes and without them having anything to question the latter would IMO be bound to reject.
If you can revisit and get the proof needed - to count back along the hoarding to a position just in front of your car and then take photos - you could, hopefully, prove and not just assert your defence.
PCN issued 8 Dec. End of 14-day period 21 Dec.
Can you get there in time?
They will reject no matter what is sent. I doubt the CEO's notes will be read at all.
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I understand the sentiment, but faced with such a defence the authority would simply refer to the CEO's notes and without them having anything to question the latter would IMO be bound to reject.
If you can revisit and get the proof needed - to count back along the hoarding to a position just in front of your car and then take photos - you could, hopefully, prove and not just assert your defence.
PCN issued 8 Dec. End of 14-day period 21 Dec.
Can you get there in time?
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Well, trouble is , time is flying by. As councils normally reject all informal reps there is no point in going into too much detail with an informal challenge. Detail is what goes into the formal representation against a Notice to Owner.
Why not send in something like this: -
Dear Sirs
Re PCN <number> dated <dd/mm/yyyy served at <location>
I deny responsibility for the above PCN on the basis that the contravention did not occur. The car was not parked in a residents' or shared use parking place when the PCN was served.
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I’ll revisit, take a picture, upload it here, and we can take it from there!
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The line means you were either wholly in or wholly out, but as we can't see the end of the line - that is whether it turns towards your car or away* - then we're not to know. Your definitive proof would be to revisit because the hoarding on your right has separate panels and it's possible to count back to make a very good calculation.
*- as the bays provide for permit holders they're not internally sub-divided therefore a transverse line marks the end of a bay.
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Well done.
Why did you park there?
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Actually, I tried adjusting the contrast on one of the images taken by the CEO, and you can faintly see the white line demarking the end the parking bay. If I visit the site and take a picture of the exact spot where the car was parked, it could confirm that the vehicle was, in fact, stationed on a single yellow line!
Link: https://imgur.com/xQxeRk7
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I am trying to see if there are any CCTV stills from the building I was visiting on the other side of the road. However, apart from that, I don’t have any evidence other than my own word. I really should get into the habit of taking pictures whenever situations like this arise.
However, logically, I wouldn’t have parked in a pay-and-display bay, as I would have had to pay for parking until 10pm and I was there around 5pm. The whole point of parking on the single yellow line was to stop temporarily.
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OP, you posted: But shouldn’t I have been fined under Code 01:
And what proof do you have in support?
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As far as earliest photo been taken at 17.17 this normal practice.
As soon as the CEO inputs the vehicle VRM into their HHC the observation starts and then only when the PCN issued does the ceo takes photos, if the ceo took photos of every vehicle that may be in contravention the memory of his HHC would soon fill up, so photos are only taken after a contravention.
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If you were wholly on that single yellow between the two bays, then the alleged contravention on the PCN is not correct, which makes it void. They cannot re-issue it with a corrected contravention. However, you only need to be partly on either of those bays for the alleged contravention to be correct.
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Their pictures don't show any bay or kerbside only the parking sign so the CEO must have thought you were in a bay.
Do you have any proof you were on a yellow? A pic taken at the time was important but your word is also credible if you are sure.
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PCN: HZ78003061
VRM: LS63UCP
Google Street View: https://maps.app.goo.gl/6ng4sGFfgkSDGGGJ7
Pictures: https://imgur.com/a/zMawYUO
On Sunday, 08/12/2024, I was fined £65 for temporarily stopping on a single yellow line on Michael Road. The controlled hours on that street apparently coincide with parking restrictions, which are 10:30 am–10:00 pm, Monday to Sunday.
Is there anything I can do? Isn’t there supposed to be a 5-minute observation period to determine if loading or unloading is taking place? According to the parking ticket, the enforcement officer observed my vehicle from 17:06 to 17:16, but the earliest photo was taken at 17:17:29 and last at 17:19:50. Additionally, the officer didn’t capture a picture of my car on the single yellow line, instead framing it to appear as though I was parked in a parking bay.
I was fined under code 12S which states:
Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place without clearly displaying either a permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place PCN Issue Criteria: Vehicle parked in a shared use bay and not displaying a valid permit, pay & display ticket or valid blue badge. In zones where Smart Visitor permits are used, if a permit scanned comes up as not activated a PCN will be issued for code 12S. If the permit comes up as being activated for a different zone a PCN will be issued for code 12W. Observation Period: Minimum of 5 minutes observation
But shouldn’t I have been fined under Code 01:
Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours PCN Issue Criteria: Vehicle parked on a yellow line when a waiting restriction is in force and no loading or unloading is seen, or vehicle parked on a yellow line when a waiting restriction is in force whilst loading but exceeding the 20 minute maximum allowed after 11:00 a.m. When only a waiting restriction is in force, drivers have unlimited time to load/unload before 11am and after 6.30pm. However if a vehicle is parked across a dropped kerb, the 20 minute limit applies. Observation Period: Minimum of 5 minutes observation. Where loading is seen to be ongoing, it will be subject to a 40 minute limit. The council may instruct CEOs to issue PCNs for this contravention in specified areas from time to time without waiting for the observation period to expire, i.e. 'instant' PCNs.
This also raises broader questions. Other boroughs allow parking on single yellow lines during weekends or after 6:30 pm on weekdays. I find the strict enforcement in this borough unreasonable. How is a maximum stay of just 1 hour on pay and display bays practical? If someone wants to visit a friend for dinner, what are they supposed to do? How is this even legal?
Note: there is no google street view for the entire street, but the single yellow lie can be seen. I have also uploaded another picture showing the exact spot where the vehicle was parked.
What are your thoughts? Is it worth challenging this fine?