Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: gge12 on December 10, 2024, 10:53:02 am

Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: cp8759 on June 25, 2025, 12:37:58 am
Quashing order here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fRD1dJx-UU_fMluGwH6Gu75e0YchvWlG/view).

As the outcome was unknown at the time of the council's submissions, their hand was weak but I don't think we can say it was wholly unreasonable.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: Hippocrates on June 24, 2025, 12:54:01 pm
29th May :(
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: cp8759 on June 23, 2025, 05:39:12 pm
The quashing order was made on 4 June, so you need to contact the Administrative Court Officer and get a copy of that. If the council response came before 4 June you can't really blame them for arguing the point, if their response to the tribunal came after 4 June then it's Wednesbury unreasonable and you can go after them for costs.

But you really must get a copy of the quashing order, you wouldn't want to just use a press clipping.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: gge12 on June 23, 2025, 11:31:52 am
[attachimg=1]

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: Hippocrates on June 21, 2025, 04:36:58 pm
@Hippocrates it would be really entertaining to see the council's response to the adjournment notice.
@cp8759 Indeed. I will phone the member to get permission. It was rubbish, actually, and shows they were not in touch with  reality.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: cp8759 on June 21, 2025, 02:18:41 pm
@Hippocrates it would be really entertaining to see the council's response to the adjournment notice.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: H C Andersen on June 20, 2025, 08:34:01 pm
The Lord Brown references (mentioned at least twice) also featured in the ETA Chief Adjudicator's Annual Report 2023-2024 and bear out the clear message in the SoS's Stat Guidance: c**p NORs by incompetent staff which simply recite received wisdom which might have at best tangential bearing on an owner's substantive argument (AKA 'Principal Important Controversial Issues')are simply not acceptable.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: cp8759 on June 20, 2025, 07:36:11 pm
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BgdzAF_eChsWK0SrLXw1W3VD6HSEJ-5C/view).
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: Hippocrates on June 20, 2025, 01:05:18 pm
Allowed.  ;D 2250132285
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: Hippocrates on June 05, 2025, 06:42:55 pm
Adjourned because of this:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/West-Dulwich-Action-Group-v-London-Borough-of-Lambeth.pdf

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ge92xldrjo
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: Hippocrates on May 11, 2025, 11:41:44 am
Just accessed the site today. Appeal already filed and threat to increase to £195 very soon!
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: Hippocrates on March 12, 2025, 05:24:14 pm
Sorry only just seen your reply. The appeal process was delayed because my wife is the registered keeper and had to provide permission for me to appeal. Finally received the rejection today:

https://imgur.com/a/Jy92CT8

They didn't address the points in my appeal regarding the incorrect dates provided for paying the discount charge. Am planning to appeal to the E&TA if anyone could assist please?

Yes. I will be more than happy to do so. I will PM you my details shortly. Do nothing please until we speak.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: gge12 on March 12, 2025, 04:03:41 pm

They didn't address the points in my appeal regarding the incorrect dates provided for paying the discount charge. Am planning to appeal to the E&TA if anyone could assist please?

Did you appeal using exactly @Hippocrates draft in Reply#10 ?

If so there is a total (but not unexpected) failure to consider.
Yes, to the letter.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: John U.K. on March 12, 2025, 03:47:43 pm

They didn't address the points in my appeal regarding the incorrect dates provided for paying the discount charge. Am planning to appeal to the E&TA if anyone could assist please?

Did you appeal using exactly @Hippocrates draft in Reply#10 ?

If so there is a total (but not unexpected) failure to consider.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: gge12 on March 12, 2025, 03:10:14 pm
Sorry only just seen your reply. The appeal process was delayed because my wife is the registered keeper and had to provide permission for me to appeal. Finally received the rejection today:

https://imgur.com/a/Jy92CT8

They didn't address the points in my appeal regarding the incorrect dates provided for paying the discount charge. Am planning to appeal to the E&TA if anyone could assist please?
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: Mentimate on February 04, 2025, 08:47:40 pm
Hi again, are Lambeth allowed to still request payment when representation has been submitted?

After initially being warned that I had until Dec 29th to pay the discounted rate, I am now being told it will increase to the higher rate 'very soon' despite still not receiving a response to my representation submitted nearly a month ago!

https://imgur.com/a/Y9IcR3i

How did you get on with this? Successful appeal?
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: Hippocrates on January 06, 2025, 02:47:12 pm
Nope. Just keep everything with screenshots of the dates.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: gge12 on January 06, 2025, 02:09:56 pm
Hi again, are Lambeth allowed to still request payment when representation has been submitted?

After initially being warned that I had until Dec 29th to pay the discounted rate, I am now being told it will increase to the higher rate 'very soon' despite still not receiving a response to my representation submitted nearly a month ago!

https://imgur.com/a/Y9IcR3i
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: Hippocrates on December 20, 2024, 12:57:51 pm
Update. Despite having submitted representation, I am still being urged to 'pay £65 now'!
https://imgur.com/a/MulNUXM

Urged? Threatened rather. Save it for later.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: gge12 on December 14, 2024, 09:40:50 pm
Update. Despite having submitted representation, I am still being urged to 'pay £65 now'!
https://imgur.com/a/MulNUXM
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: gge12 on December 14, 2024, 08:37:21 pm
Thank you, however the date of the notice was definitely December 2nd:
https://imgur.com/a/W4LELWg

Have now submitted reps as advised above.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: Hippocrates on December 14, 2024, 08:11:03 pm
Or is this standard practice across all the London boroughs?
No it is not. Your comments re the dates are in general ok. But:

1. 14 days discount starts with the date so expired on 4th December.

2. They can only serve a charge certificate 28 days from the date of service ( 25th November) = 22nd December.

****

Choose penalty exceeded amount and put this in a pdf.

Dear Lambeth

Please cancel the PCN as your website is not fit for purpose due to the clear disconnects between the law and what is stated therein. All your dates are wrong in terms of payment and the enclosed screenshot is an example of bullying.

In light of this collateral challenge, the PCN must be cancelled. It is incumbent upon an authority to give clear and precise states re payments etc and these must be according to the statutory process.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: John U.K. on December 14, 2024, 10:11:36 am
Quote
The amount outstanding on the Charge Notice will increase to £130.00 on Sun, 29 Dec 2024.

"will" is a clear fettering of discretion.

as Incandescent says, @Hippocrates delights in these cases.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: gge12 on December 14, 2024, 09:48:57 am
Or is this standard practice across all the London boroughs?
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: gge12 on December 13, 2024, 12:36:07 pm
There is a discrepancy between what is stated on the PCN I received in the post and and what is stated online. According to the letter, I have 14 days from the date of the notice (02.12.24) to pay the discounted rate of £65. Furthermore, the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days from this date. This suggests that after 14 days you pay the full charge of £130 but either way you must pay before the period of 28 days. It does not state which, if any, penalties exist for not paying during this time frame.

When you view the PCN on Lambeth's website, it says The amount outstanding on the Charge Notice will increase to £130.00 on Sun, 29 Dec 2024. Please pay £65.00 now. This is different as it suggests you have 28 days to pay the discounted rate and an undeterminable period in which to pay the full charge. This is confusing and misleading, especially as the PCN letter directs you to the website to view, challenge or pay the charge.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: Incandescent on December 12, 2024, 09:45:09 pm
Thanks, in the fifth and final picture I uploaded there is a screenshot from the Lambeth website which states that I have until Dec 29th to pay the discounted rate.
Ah, right, an error on their website, so carry on with your case ! If anybody can win this for you it'll be Hippocrates.  I suspect when they see him on the case their hearts (of stone) get even heavier !
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: gge12 on December 12, 2024, 09:19:31 pm
https://imgur.com/a/BWsUMRd
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: Hippocrates on December 12, 2024, 09:00:23 pm
Please show the screenshot. I won a case on this a few months ago for a fellow member.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: gge12 on December 12, 2024, 08:14:55 pm
Thanks, in the fifth and final picture I uploaded there is a screenshot from the Lambeth website which states that I have until Dec 29th to pay the discounted rate.
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: Incandescent on December 12, 2024, 03:57:50 pm
anyone?
So which dates do you think are wrong, because there are no dates which I can see apart from the PCN date and date of alleged contravention ?

Anyway, here is the controlling legislation under which the PCN has been issued, so have a read
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/contents/enacted
Title: Re: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: gge12 on December 12, 2024, 12:06:35 pm
anyone?
Title: Lambeth PCN 52m Tulsemere Road
Post by: gge12 on December 10, 2024, 10:53:02 am
Don't have much defence for the fact I drove through here but suspect the dates of increased charges may be wrong if anyone could clarify:

https://imgur.com/a/W4LELWg