Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: correcthaunt on December 09, 2024, 08:09:51 pm

Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: correcthaunt on June 08, 2025, 01:08:02 pm
No of course not but I do not want to be in a position that in 5.5 years time I will forget about it and then they issue N1SDT Claim Forms to an address I do not reside anymore or what if I am abroad etc. Keeping their lawfirm updated of mywhereabouts is not ideal so I would prefer this gets resolved/closed.
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: b789 on June 07, 2025, 06:06:30 pm
Do you really want them to actually issue an N1SDT Claim Form? They have up to 6 years to issue a claim. They may never issue one. If they don't issue a claim within a few months of issuing an LoC, they should issue a new LoC otherwise they are acting unreasonably and opening themselves up to a costs order for unreasonable behaviour.
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: correcthaunt on June 07, 2025, 05:57:18 pm
@b789 - Thank you for taking the time to explain the process in detail, as this helps me with understanding what to expect.

That said they had issued me 2 LoC back in Jan as per Reply #13 on: January 08, 2025, 06:20:37 pm in this very post [it's on page 1]. I never responded to them and it's been well over 30 days now. So do I just leave it or ask them to issue 1SDT Claim Form?
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: b789 on June 07, 2025, 04:42:48 pm
They cannot "apply for a CCJ". They have to issue a claim for debt. There is whole process that they need to go through. Before they can issue a debt claim. They first need to issue a Letter of Claim (LoC) that explains the nature of the claim and it must give you at least 30 days to respond.

You will let us know when they issue an LoC and we will provide a response you can send them. Only after they have sent you an LoC, you have responded with the questions we advise you to ask and after they have provided a suitable response to that, can they then issue an actual N1SDT Claim Form.

Again, we advise on how to respond and provide the necessary defence. You then have a whole process where you are notified of receipt of your defence, a response from the claimant acknowledging receipt of the defence that has been forwarded by the CNBC which is then followed with an N180 Directions Questionnaire which is followed with a mediation phone call which is then followed by allocation to your local county court and then a judge will issue direction with dates and deadlines or may even strike to the claim at that stage. It goes on and on until the claim is either struck out or they discontinue, which is the most likely scenario.

If it ever got as far as a hearing, which is extremely rare, they would still have to be successful to obtain a CCJ and, if you were so unlucky, as long as it was paid within 30 days, there is no record of it. It is completely expunged.

The only way you get a CCJ without knowing about it is if you do not receive the claim and then you would have to apply to have the CCJ set aside under CPR 13.2 or CPR 13.3. That would only happen if you do not have any mechanism in place to receive your post at whichever address the vehicle ir registered at or you advised them to which address you should be served.

They have up to 6 years from the date of the alleged contravention to be able to issue a claim. So, if you do move before then, make sure you update your address with the parking operator.

Nothing we advise on here will make anyone get a CCJ.

Quote
A County Court Judgment (CCJ) does not just happen—it follows a clear legal process. If someone gets a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from a private parking company, here's what happens step by step:

1. Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Issued

• The parking company sends a letter (Notice to Keeper) demanding money.

• This is not a fine—it’s an invoice for an alleged breach of contract.

2. Opportunity to Appeal

• The recipient can appeal to the parking company.

•If rejected, they may be able to appeal to POPLA (if BPA member) or IAS (if IPC member).

• If an appeal is lost or ignored, the parking company demands payment.

3. Debt Collection Letters

• The parking company might send scary letters or pass the case to a debt collector.

• Debt collectors have no power—they just send letters and can be ignored.

• No CCJ happens at this stage.

4. Letter Before Claim (LBC)

• If ignored for long enough, the parking company (or their solicitor) sends a Letter Before Claim (LBC).

• This is a warning that they may start a court case.

• The recipient has 30 days to reply before a claim is filed.

• No CCJ happens at this stage.

5. County Court Claim Issued

• If ignored or unpaid, the parking company may file a claim with the County Court.

• The court sends a Claim Form with details of the claim and how to respond.

• The recipient has 14 days to respond (or 28 days if they acknowledge it).

• No CCJ happens at this stage.

6. Court Process

• If the recipient defends the claim, a judge decides if they owe money.

• If the recipient ignores the claim, the parking company wins by default.

• No CCJ happens yet unless the recipient loses and ignores the court.

7. Judgment & Payment

• If the court rules that money is owed, the recipient has 30 days to pay in full.

• If they pay within 30 days, no CCJ goes on their credit file.

• If they don’t pay within 30 days, the CCJ stays on their credit file for 6 years.

Conclusion

CCJs do not appear out of thin air. They only happen if:

• A parking company takes the case to court.

• The person loses or ignores the case.

• The person fails to pay within 30 days.

If you engage with the process (appeal, defend, or pay on time), no CCJ happens.
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: correcthaunt on June 07, 2025, 02:09:56 pm
Hi @b789,

It's been over 150 days since those letters were sent, but nothing informing me that they applied for CCJ. Have they just decided not to or is it more likely that royal mail just never delievered it.

I run the trustonline.org.uk search in the past and it showed nothing but paying £6 each time is getting a bit ridiculous. That said I do not wish to have CCJ on my credit file only because Royal Mail might have not delivered the post. Is there any way to check if they did anything on this or ensure that all court all notifications are done via e-mail?
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: b789 on January 11, 2025, 01:48:29 pm
Of course we will assist with the defence and we hand hold throughout the process.
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: correcthaunt on January 11, 2025, 01:31:08 pm
Quote
Are you satisfied that the address they are using is the one you will use for service of documents? If not, you will need to respond and inform them that they need to use your other address for service. If not, then you can just wait for the actual N1SDT Claim Form to arrive.
Yes it’s fine, I don’t mind if they go to London or Bristol one as long as they do get delivered... I am at both pretty much every other day so it’s no difference.

Quote
Additionally, the claimant’s bulk litigator, Moorside Legal, is known to issue claims that breach CPR 16.4(1)(a) by failing to include a clear statement of facts in the Particulars of Claim (PoC). Based on persuasive appeal case law, including CEL v Chan [2023] and CPMS v Akande [2024], it is highly likely that the first claim will be struck out at the allocation stage for failing to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a). Therefore, it is expected that the first claim will not proceed to a hearing due to these procedural errors.
I am happy and want to go with option 2 but I have to be honest, I would need a bit more hand holding throughout the process as I struggled to follow the detail. I understood that this could have been combined into 1 claim as they are basically the same allegation happening on 2 different dates. That alone will be my defence to struck the 2nd claim correct?

Either way they have literally changed the signage since the driver parked there so I doubt they would be able to prove that the driver didn’t comply with the “contractual signage“... I will wait for the court claim letters to arrive so I can add this to MCOL. Would you be able to help with the defence when the time comes?


Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: b789 on January 09, 2025, 02:26:38 am
Those are real LoC. They do not come from the court. LoC or Letter Before Claim (LBC), are the same thing. We don’t need to see anything except the first page. You can ignore the forms that came with it.

The first letters from Moorside Legal acting as debt collectors and were for £170 each but estimating court costs too. As advised, they were to be ignored at that stage.

Are you satisfied that the address they are using is the one you will use for service of documents? If not, you will need to respond and inform them that they need to use your other address for service. If not, then you can just wait for the actual N1SDT Claim Form to arrive.

There are two options for dealing with Moorside Legal’s two separate Letters of Claim.

Option 1: Suggest Consolidation of Both Claims

This involves writing to Moorside to ask them to withdraw one of the Letters of Claim and combine both claims into a single claim to comply with the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR). If they refuse, you can later raise the issue of abuse of process during court proceedings.

How it Works:

Inform the claimant that two separate claims are disproportionate and unfair.
Request that they combine both claims into one to save costs and time. If they refuse and proceed with two claims, raise the issue with the court as part of your defence or in a strike-out application.

Legal Basis:
CPR Rule 1.1 – Overriding Objective
CPR Rule 3.4(2)(b) – Abuse of Process
Henderson v Henderson (1843)

Benefits:

1. Shows your reasonableness to the court by trying to resolve the issue early.

2. Could lead to lower overall costs if the claimant agrees to consolidate the claims.

3.Reduces the risk of facing two separate claims and associated court fees.

Risks:

1. It gives the claimant a chance to fix their mistake by combining the claims.

2. If they consolidate, you may not get a chance to argue cause of action estoppel later.

Option 2: Let the Claimant Issue Two Claims

This involves allowing the claimant to issue two separate claims. Once the first claim is dealt with, you can argue cause of action estoppel to get the second claim struck out as an abuse of process. This tactic exposes the claimant’s vexatious conduct and is likely to result in a costs order being awarded in your favour for the claimants unreasonable behaviour.

Additionally, the claimant’s bulk litigator, Moorside Legal, is known to issue claims that breach CPR 16.4(1)(a) by failing to include a clear statement of facts in the Particulars of Claim (PoC). Based on persuasive appeal case law, including CEL v Chan [2023] and CPMS v Akande [2024], it is highly likely that the first claim will be struck out at the allocation stage for failing to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a). Therefore, it is expected that the first claim will not proceed to a hearing due to these procedural errors.

How it Works:
Defend the first claim on its merits, but expect it to be struck out at allocation stage due to the claimant’s failure to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a). When the second claim is issued, argue that it is barred by cause of action estoppel because the claimant should have brought both claims together. Include a request for a strike-out in your defence as a preliminary matter, inviting the court to strike out the second claim under CPR 3.4(2)(b) without the need for a separate application.

Legal Basis:
Cause of Action Estoppel (Henderson v Henderson)
Res Judicata (Johnson v Gore Wood & Co [2002])
CPR Rule 3.4(2)(b) – Abuse of Process
CPR Rule 16.4(1)(a) – Failure to Include a Clear Statement of Facts in the Claim Form
White Book annotation 38.6.1 – Costs for Unreasonable Behaviour

Benefits:

1. Stronger legal argument – cause of action estoppel is well-established in case law.

2. The claimant’s bulk litigator is known to make procedural errors in claim forms, meaning the first claim is likely to be struck out at allocation stage.

3. Exposes the claimant’s conduct – shows the claimant is wasting court time by pursuing two claims.

4.Potential to recover costs – you can request a costs order for unreasonable behaviour if the claimant’s conduct is found to be vexatious.

5. Higher chance of the second claim being struck out – courts do not like multiple claims for related matters.

6. No need to pay the £303 N244 application fee – cause of action estoppel can be raised as part of your defence.

Costs Order for Unreasonable Behaviour:

Although CPR 27.14(2)(g) does not apply to the small claims track, the White Book annotation 38.6.1 states that costs may be awarded if a claimant has behaved unreasonably, particularly where a notice of discontinuance is served. The claimant’s conduct in issuing two separate claims for what is essentially the same matter can be argued to be unreasonable behaviour, and a costs order can be requested as part of the defence.

Which Option Is Better?

Option 2 (Let Them Issue Two Claims) is the better strategy if you want to expose the claimant’s abuse of process and vexatious conduct. It provides a stronger legal argument and increases your chances of recovering costs for the claimant’s unreasonable behaviour.

Additionally, given that the claimant’s bulk litigator, Moorside Legal, frequently issues claim forms that breach CPR 16.4(1)(a), the first claim is almost certain to be struck out at allocation stage anyway. This significantly strengthens the argument for cause of action estoppel in the second claim and increases the likelihood of obtaining a costs order for the claimant’s unreasonable behaviour.

Option 1 (Suggest Consolidation) is better if you want to be seen as cooperative and reasonable early on and prefer to handle just one claim to reduce the hassle of dealing with multiple claims.

In conclusion, Option 2 is what I would recommend as it gives a stronger legal argument using cause of action estoppel, exposes the claimant’s vexatious behaviour, and takes advantage of the likelihood that the first claim will be struck out for procedural errors. This strategy increases the chances of the second claim being struck out and costs being awarded in your favour.
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: correcthaunt on January 08, 2025, 06:20:37 pm
Quote from: b789 on December 14, 2024, 03:28:15 pm
Yes, you wait for an LoC. Ignore all debt collection correspondence. It is to be ignored. We don't need to know about it.

An LoC or the actual N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC s what we need to know about.

Hi @b789,

LoC has arrived now to the London address, not where the vehicle is registered. Interesting because the letters they posted look similar to what the court sends. Is that legal? Another point to note is that they are now only asking for £170 as opposed to £277 as they did in the last letter…

Moorside Legal AC1
(https://i.postimg.cc/4H1g5BVj/LOC-1.png) (https://postimg.cc/4H1g5BVj)

Moorside Legal AC2
(https://i.postimg.cc/jDBSC3Xh/Loc-2.png) (https://postimg.cc/jDBSC3Xh)

Am I right in thinking that I just ignore this and we wait for the real LoC from the Court?
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: correcthaunt on December 14, 2024, 03:43:26 pm
Quote from: b789 on December 14, 2024, 03:28:15 pm
Yes, you wait for an LoC. Ignore all debt collection correspondence. It is to be ignored. We don't need to know about it.

An LoC or the actual N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC s what we need to know about.

Understood. No LoC. The debt collectors stopped sending letters regarding this as soon as Moorside Legal got involved.

I just read some horror stories in the CNBC's reviews so I hope they will actually send the paperwork!

Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: b789 on December 14, 2024, 03:28:15 pm
Yes, you wait for an LoC. Ignore all debt collection correspondence. It is to be ignored. We don't need to know about it.

An LoC or the actual N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC s what we need to know about.
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: correcthaunt on December 14, 2024, 03:19:12 pm
Quote from: b789 on December 14, 2024, 03:11:11 pm
No. It means that if crucial correspondence that requires a timely response are not received, at least within the required timeframe, you could end up receiving a claim that you are not aware of and if not responded to by the required deadlines, the claimant can request a CCJ by default.

You need to make it absolutely clear to Moorside Legal, which address they must use for service of documents. It doesn't matter which one you choose as long as it is one where you can receive timely notification.

If Moorside Legal are using an address that you do not wish to use as an address for service of legal documents, you must immediately send a Data Rectification Notice to the DPO of Moorside Legal and instruct them to update their records with your address for service and for them to erase any other address they hold for you.

The highlighted words are there for a reason and you must use them in your notice. The contact details for the DPO will be in their privacy policy statement on their website.

Understood, it makes no difference to me as nothing is going to get missed as long as they actually send this. Ideally, I would prefer they send me e-mails...

So I just wait for their letter of claim?
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: b789 on December 14, 2024, 03:11:11 pm
No. It means that if crucial correspondence that requires a timely response are not received, at least within the required timeframe, you could end up receiving a claim that you are not aware of and if not responded to by the required deadlines, the claimant can request a CCJ by default.

You need to make it absolutely clear to Moorside Legal, which address they must use for service of documents. It doesn't matter which one you choose as long as it is one where you can receive timely notification.

If Moorside Legal are using an address that you do not wish to use as an address for service of legal documents, you must immediately send a Data Rectification Notice to the DPO of Moorside Legal and instruct them to update their records with your address for service and for them to erase any other address they hold for you.

The highlighted words are there for a reason and you must use them in your notice. The contact details for the DPO will be in their privacy policy statement on their website.
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: correcthaunt on December 14, 2024, 01:59:39 pm
Quote
What Acknowledgement of Service (AoS)? An AoS is an official response to an actual N1SDT Claim Form being issued. You have not yet received a Claim.

Correct I haven’t received one. Apologies @b789, I made a mistake and got confused here by something else. There is no letters from tribunal informing me that they made a claim in this case (yet).  I have re-edited the previous incorrect post to clarify this.

Quote
Also, why exactly do you mean "...they were sent to a temporary location in London..."? Was the LoC sent to the same address that the vehicle is registered at and you are the Registered Keeper? Are you suggesting that they possibly hold two separate addresses for you?

I am the Registered Keeper and the car is registered to a Bristol address. I share my time between Bristol and London pretty much 50/50. The letters from NCP that you can see in the first post were issued to Bristol. The Moorside lawyers have only been sending letters (including those posted today) to the London address and never once had they sent anything to Bristol.

Not sure what you mean by “then the is a surefire way of getting a CCJ by default.” but as per above the registered keeper is getting correspondence to the permanent address where the car is registered in Bristol from NCP and to temporary residence in London from Moorside. I am unsure on how they got the other address, must have been through a credit check or something like that. Is the fact that they have 2 addresses mean I will get a CCJ or it makes it easier to strike them off?

I've just looked through the paperwork again and there is no Letter of Claim from them.
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: b789 on December 14, 2024, 01:38:29 pm
What do you mean by this?

Quote from: correcthaunt on December 14, 2024, 01:28:13 pm
Not sure if this is because I submitted my AoS or their standard practice.

These were also sent to a temporary location in London, and not where the car is registered.

What Acknowledgement of Service (AoS)? An AoS is an official response to an actual N1SDT Claim Form being issued. You have not yet received a Claim.

Also, why exactly do you mean "...they were sent to a temporary location in London..."? Was the LoC sent to the same address that the vehicle is registered at and you are the Registered Keeper? Are you suggesting that they possibly hold two separate addresses for you?

The response to an LoC must make it absolutely clear to them that there is only one address for service of documents. If they hold more than one possible address, then the is a surefire way of getting a CCJ by default.

So, we do not need to know about any rubbish they send you about collecting the alleged debt or repayment schemes. All we need to know about is an actual LoC or an N1SDST Claim Form received through the CNBC.

You have raised some questions by your previous post. Please answer the questions raised so that we can clarify what exactly you meant.
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: correcthaunt on December 14, 2024, 01:28:13 pm
Another weekend, another letter. I swear they time them so people fester over the weekend.

Anyway, these two are pretty much identical offering a "payment plan".

These were also sent to a temporary location in London, and not where the car is registered in Bristol.

Here are the letters:

(https://i.postimg.cc/dDtQDjxS/Moorside-Legal-AC-1-AC2-payment-plan.png) (https://postimg.cc/dDtQDjxS)

Any action or we wait for county court claims?
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: DWMB2 on December 10, 2024, 07:51:41 am
Yes - those letters from Moorside are not letters of claim from the looks of them. If they do issue a Letter of Claim come back here. Again, if they do they should issue one claim covering both parking charges.
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: correcthaunt on December 10, 2024, 06:52:21 am
Quote from: b789 on December 10, 2024, 12:31:34 am
The first Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not PoFA compliant and judging by the date of the contravention and the date of the reminder of the second one, neither is that one.

They only know that you are the Keeper and have no idea who the driver is. There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver. As the NtKs are not PoFA compliant, only the driver can be liable.

If this goes any further, they would get spanked in court if they tried to sue the Keeper.

So, in the words of Dads Army… “Don’t tell ‘em your name Pike”.

Under no circumstances is the driver to be identified, inadvertently or otherwise, if you want this to eventually go away.

So I, the registered keeper, just wait to see if they wish to proceed through the courts. Until then nothing to do?
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: correcthaunt on December 10, 2024, 06:49:39 am
Quote from: DWMB2 on December 09, 2024, 10:08:41 pm
Welcome to FTLA.

Can you please show us the letter you have received from Moorside Legal?

As a semi-related aside: I note your comments about splitting your time between two places of residence. If this arrangement means you are away from the address where your vehicle is registered for extended periods, then you need to consider some means by which you can receive and respond to post in a timely manner.

Yes please see the letters:

Moorside Legal AC1
(https://i.postimg.cc/gL02ZJk8/Moorside-Legal-AC1.png) (https://postimg.cc/gL02ZJk8)

Moorside Legal AC2
(https://i.postimg.cc/BtZ6yhcb/Moorside-Legal-AC2.png) (https://postimg.cc/BtZ6yhcb)

Noted regarding the post.
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: b789 on December 10, 2024, 12:31:34 am
The first Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not PoFA compliant and judging by the date of the contravention and the date of the reminder of the second one, neither is that one.

They only know that you are the Keeper and have no idea who the driver is. There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver. As the NtKs are not PoFA compliant, only the driver can be liable.

If this goes any further, they would get spanked in court if they tried to sue the Keeper.

So, in the words of Dads Army… “Don’t tell ‘em your name Pike”.

Under no circumstances is the driver to be identified, inadvertently or otherwise, if you want this to eventually go away.
Title: Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: DWMB2 on December 09, 2024, 10:08:41 pm
Welcome to FTLA.

Can you please show us the letter you have received from Moorside Legal?

As a semi-related aside: I note your comments about splitting your time between two places of residence. If this arrangement means you are away from the address where your vehicle is registered for extended periods, then you need to consider some means by which you can receive and respond to post in a timely manner.
Title: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
Post by: correcthaunt on December 09, 2024, 08:09:51 pm
Background
The driver has been playing football at the Chobham Academy Stratford for the last 4 years or so. Always after work so past the 17:00 o’clock mark. There was no signage back in the day and then when they put one up at the location it was reviewed once. Although it was confusingly worded, it read something along the lines: “Parking is only chargeable between 06:00 - 16:00 every weekday on Monday – Friday” and the understanding was that during the school hours one had to pay a small fee (under £2). No Recollection to the weekend tariffs. The driver proceeded to use the car park to play occasional games (the driver lost count to give the exact number but easily +30 games) since pre-COVID, on both weekdays and weekends.

Alleged Contravention 1 (AC1)
01.07.2024 - Upon entering the car park, the driver found a space, parked up, and went for their football game that lasted around 45min. Just like before the driver has left the car park without having paid.

AC1 PCN to Keeper
(https://i.postimg.cc/KR7GXVyg/AC1-PCN-to-Keeper.png) (https://postimg.cc/KR7GXVyg)

AC1 Final Reminder
(https://i.postimg.cc/XXCNLqHL/AC1-Final-Reminder.png) (https://postimg.cc/XXCNLqHL)

Alleged Contravention 2 (AC2)
08.07.2024 - Upon entering the car park, the driver found a space, parked up, and went for their football game that lasted around 45min. Just like before the driver has left the car park without having paid.

AC2 PCN to Keeper was never issued/delivered.

AC2 Final Reminder
(https://i.postimg.cc/LnF9bSGp/AC2-Final-Reminder.png) (https://postimg.cc/LnF9bSGp)

I, the registered keeper of the vehicle, spend half my time in one address in Bristol (where the car is registered to) and other half in a London address.  I, the registered keeper was at the time in London after which I drove to Europe and didn’t return back to the UK until mid-August. All three of the documents listed above were seen mid-August, past the discounted time-period.

Upon my return to the UK and seeing the letters sent to Bristol. I made my way to Chobham Academy Stratford. Upon arrival, I found new signage in place which must have been replaced somewhere after 8th of July and before my visit in August. As such I cannot post any photos of the signage in the car park as they have changed this since issuing the letters.

The PCN references do not load on the NCP website so I was never able to see all of their pictures. Just the ones provided in the above letters as their website said/says “Unfortunately you are unable to appeal this charge at this time.”

Here is a google link to the location:

The sign used to be yellow next to the green box thing where security sits post covid.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.550255,-0.007851,63m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Pre COVID there was nothing other to say this is private car park:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5503421,-0.0079526,3a,90y,341.79h,92.32t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sEkoS1fVAM1tpoPgQCGSJrA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-2.3227332793832574%26panoid%3DEkoS1fVAM1tpoPgQCGSJrA%26yaw%3D341.78932322090947!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

And this at the entrance:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5500103,-0.0078454,3a,51.3y,5.88h,83.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swpXlmr6PFIUSnIdSoEGoPQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D6.702524895624293%26panoid%3DwpXlmr6PFIUSnIdSoEGoPQ%26yaw%3D5.881104322805278!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

I then asked the security guard about the old sign and if there were any pictures of it and was told no, and that this carpark’s signage was replaced recently.

I have since received letters from Trace Debt Recovery for £170 each, where I got more letters for one incident than the other as I think they are confusing them.

Now at the end of November I got a letter from Moorside Legal asking for £277 for each incident.

I only just realised today that these are in fact 2 separate incidents due to inconsistent letters.

I haven’t contacted anyone yet… should I reach out to their solicitors and tell them that they cannot possibly expect the payment when the signage was changed…  or should I wait for the claim form.

Any help is greatly appreciated.