Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: rsg444 on August 18, 2023, 01:33:38 pm
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the vehicle owner is in his late 60s and just wanted to put it to bed - so he paid first thing this morning.
Unfortunately that is the sort of attitude that allows councils to rake in millions, and encourages them to continue to reject representations whether rightly or wrongly. The next time he gets a PCN, remind him of that.
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Thank you so much for that kind and generous offer. We could never expect you to do that - you do enough for so many of us on these forums as it is - with all the advice and free representations you make at the hearings.
Personally, I was really tempted to encourage a hearing and take the "double or quits" risk out of principal, but the vehicle owner is in his late 60s and just wanted to put it to bed - so he paid first thing this morning.
Thanks again for your kind offer!
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@rsg444 how about this, let's appeal and if we lose, I'll pay the other £40.
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Thank you CP, really appreciate the offer.
I think despite, what is in my opinion, Newham's abuse of process the PCN recipient is going to pay the £40 to put this to bed. After our experience of my mum's disabled badge fiasco, I feel taking it to the Adjudicator is not worth the risk of losing the discount.
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I think the strongest point is that they have not had regard to the statutory guidance around timeframes for issuing the NTO. I can't guarantee the outcome but I'd be happy to represent you at the tribunal if you want to carry on.
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If we were to appeal it'd be on the basis that they did not respond to the informal appeal, then sent a NTO 5 months later. Then they ignored the points that were made in the Reps. But mostly, if they did not issue a virtual permit, shouldn't the contravention be:
12 - Parked in a residents’ or shared use parking place or zone without a
valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid 19physical permit or
voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place where required,
or without payment of the parking charge
instead they issued the PCN under:
19 - Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone with an
invalid virtual permit or displaying an invalid physical permit or voucher
or pay and display ticket, or after the expiry of paid for time
If this is clutching at straws then we will just pay - we will put aside the fact their Trade permit process is hit and miss, sometimes the same evidence is enough to be issued a permit, sometimes its not.
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Hi all,
So the formal reps were rejected with no consideration of any of the points that had been made in the reps. They have offered this to be settled for £40 so while it is tempting to be done with it, I'm thinking to take this to the Adjudicators. Any advice would be much appreciated. NOR is available using link below:
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnmXGxrrsC7wgg-4VQE-Vpq6Qnej?e=XQxZQg
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For later:
The Newham (Stratford North West) (Parking Places) (No. 1) Order 2010 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1fSs6yov2ClY8jX68E4nh0tHS-TDq2_Tc)
The Newham (Stratford North West) (Parking Places) (No. 1, 2010) (Amendment No. 14) Order 2015 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1iN29DD9FZrIkgHRGRO1WtVcr4_1V5fBF)
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Yes that looks fine.
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Is this ok to go?
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Sorry, Reps will be as follows:
Dear Newham,
I appealed the PCN that was issued on the 08/03/2023 within 14 days. I received no response. It wasn't until 5 months after the alleged contravention that you issued a Notice to Owner. From my perspective, you have not shown any consideration for my initial appeal. I followed the process as set out on your PCN but you have not. Please can you explain why you chose not to respond to my appeal and what circumstances resulted in the Notice to Owner being issued over 5 months after the PCN was issued? - the vehicle is registered to me, therefore over 5 months is unacceptable.
I also note that the PCN was issued using contravention code 19 - Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone with an invalid virtual permit or displaying an invalid physical permit or voucher or pay and display ticket or after the expiry of paid for time.
After receiving the PCN, I searched for the permit email only to find a rejection email in my Junk Email folder. The reason for the rejection was a failure to provide proof of address, however I provided you with a Virgin Media bill dated within the required timeframe showing the address of the property where the building work was being carried out. I explained this in my initial appeal. Nonetheless, my application for the permit was refused (the reasons for the refusal need to be investigated further), as such a refusal means that no permit had been issued by you. Therefore the use contravention code 19 is incorrect - if you had refused to issue a Trade Permit, how can it be that I had an invalid virtual or physical permit?
As a result, the alleged contravention did not occur meaning that the PCN must be cancelled. In addition to this, your failure to consider my points in my initial appeal and the fact that you took over 5 months to issue the Notice to Owner leads to Procedural Impropriety and again results in grounds for the PCN to be cancelled.
Regards.
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Thank you CP. On PePiPoo I have provided more context after having spoken with the driver following some questions raised on that forum.
This is what is planned on being sent to Newham in response to the NTO.
Dear Newham Parking,
On 08/03/2023 a PCN was affixed to my vehicle with registration XXXXX.
As per the instructions on the PCN, I followed the process you have set out and sent an appeal within 14 days of receiving the PCN explaining that I had indeed applied for a trade permit and provided proof of address in the form of a Virgin Media bill for the address in question.
I received no response to the appeal instead, over 5 months later I received a Notice to Owner. Please can you explain why I did not receive a response to my initial appeal and why it has taken you over 5 months to issue a Notice to Owner?
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There's some stuff in the Secretary of State's statutory guidance about not issuing NTOs towards the end of the six month time limit without exceptional circumstances being in play. In the first instance I suggest you draft a formal representation based on everything you've posted above, and I'll tidy it up for you and add some bits about the council's tardiness.
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Hi all,
Extended family member received a PCN on 08/03/23 affixed to their van. I sent an informal challenge on their behalf on the 13/03/23. We did not hear anything.
Yesterday, they received a NTO dated 15/08/23. Are there any options available to us at this stage?
The informal challenge was as follows - there is bit of a back story to this.
Family member is a builder and obtained a trade permit that lasts a week to carry out some work at an address on Dunmow Road. Newham issued a PCN anyway and in the informal challenge the permit was sent to Newham who cancelled the PCN.
The following week, the job was still ongoing so again another trade permit was applied for using the exact details and proof of address as was done for the first permit. Family member received the trade permit receipt and so assumed all was good, they parked for the week but on the last day of their job and what should have been the last day of the new permit, they find a PCN attached to the vehicle. That same evening, while looking for the trade permit email, Family member notices a permit rejection email in their Junk Folder.
I appealed on their behalf explaining that a trade permit was applied for, in the same way as permit the week before using the same proof of ID and address documents but for some reason this the permit was rejected stating that proof of address had not been provided. The same Virgin Media bill was provided as last time. The rejection email had been sent a few hours after the application.
This then goes into the ether and all of a sudden a NTO is issued after not hearing for over 4 months. My understanding is that the 56 day rule only applies to Formal Reps, assuming they did respond to the challenge and it wasn't received, if I calculate back 30 odd days, it still means the Council took nearly 4 months to respond to the informal challenge.
PCN, Receipt for Permit application and NTO can be viewed using the link below:
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnmXGxrrsC7wgkL_mCyreZFU8Owk?e=vQdT91
Any assistance will be much appreciated. Also posted to Pepipoo.