Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: arvin on November 25, 2024, 11:19:10 pm

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: Enceladus on December 02, 2024, 11:26:52 pm

Well done! Always have a go.

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: Incandescent on December 02, 2024, 05:38:30 pm

Well done ! At least there seems to be a smidgeon of commonsense in TfL

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: arvin on December 02, 2024, 04:56:00 pm

Thanks to all those who helped,
I have finally received a response for my 2 PCN's from TFL correspondence from my complaint in October. They have decided to use discretion and cancel both PCN's as they were made aware that I never received an indication of the VRM error and that I had been appealing against a case of non-active AUTOPay status.

So although the charges were correct, the miscommunication + common sense of trying to pay congestion in advance in the first place rectified the PCN's. :D  ;D  :D  ;D They even added the correct VRM details to the autopay system for future journeys...

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: arvin on November 28, 2024, 12:37:05 pm

I did complain, they did ignore. I have had 0 response from the complaint.

I will try the plea for discretion route and try again through complaints but I have a feeling they won't care

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: Incandescent on November 28, 2024, 12:32:23 pm

Quote

Not sure how else to get through to them

YoOu need to raise a formal complaint; they cannot ignore these. Just firing off emails won't make anything happen.

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: arvin on November 28, 2024, 11:55:51 am

You've told us that your Statutory Declarations were witnessed on May 24th and then posted 1st class. When were the SDs actually posted?


Same day, all of them including my other PCN's, which dated before the TFL one's.

And how did you know to submit the SDs in the first place? Did you receive the Orders for Recovery?


I contacted TEC, got through to them eventually and they informed me not to fill in PE7/PE8(Honestly filled out enough forms and sent them to TEC for them to tell me to get them notarised ) i believe as that is long gone and not the correct form.

I never received the Orders for recovery, I just received a bailiff at my door as my first indicator that something is not ok.
I have submitted one SD for each TFL PCN, the other 2 council PCN'S I also submitted were same procedure, I did not receive a response from my appeals, difference being, my SD was adequate enough(same explanation used for my TFL SD) it reverted back to stage one and they actually had a look at my appeal and then realised they made a mistake.

Bear in mind this was during the winter last year with the whole Royal Mail postage issues

At the moment I don't believe you have any procedural means of resetting the enforcement process. You need to write to TFL and explain how this situation has come about, that there was no intent to circumvent or evade the charges and so on. Ask them to use their discretion to cancel the charges. But right now I for one am not sure what has actually happened

They have not gotten back to me in any of the emails I have sent them(yes it's sent and not outbox)
I have made a representation/complaint on 3rd September 2024 - Representation reference number: 48044857 - NO RESPONSE

TFL chat is customer services just receiving abuse so they are reluctant to help.

Not sure how else to get through to them

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: Enceladus on November 27, 2024, 02:54:16 am

The case progression tell us:
"TZ96679952
26 March 2024 Notice of Debt Registration Issued
A debt has been registered and an Order for Recovery has been issued."

"LP00274866
09 April 2024 Notice of Debt Registration Issued
A debt has been registered and an Order for Recovery has been issued."

You've told us that your Statutory Declarations were witnessed on May 24th and then posted 1st class. When were the SDs actually posted?

As I understand the TEC rules, based on the above dates, the SDs would have been out of time. IE late and beyond the time limit. So I would expect that the TEC bounced the SDs as Out of Time and would have returned them to you with a letter telling you to resubmit the SDs with Out of Time applications. Is that what happened and did you resubmit with OOTs?

And how did you know to submit the SDs in the first place? Did you receive the Orders for Recovery?
You seem to have submitted an SD more than once for PCN TZ96679952. Did you submit the SDs in order to respond to the Orders for Recovery? Or was it because you received the bailiff's Notice of Enforcement?

At the moment I don't believe you have any procedural means of resetting the enforcement process. You need to write to TFL and explain how this situation has come about, that there was no intent to circumvent or evade the charges and so on. Ask them to use their discretion to cancel the charges. But right now I for one am not sure what has actually happened.

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: arvin on November 26, 2024, 04:50:14 pm

Luckily I took a screenshot of the complaint reference, 3rd of September this year, haven't heard back of course. I would happily pay the CC as intended. As much as I am a morning person, it is not fun to play wack a mole with my vehicle and CDER group trying to clamp it, to then add holding fees to it  ::)  I also asked the CDER group bailiff to kindly forward my letter considering they seem to have contact with their client TFL.

I wish I had posted months a go, unfortunately I had numerous other PCN's I was dealing with simultaneously, hilariously trying to deal with some outright negligent fines that drove me mad, at some point I thought I had started getting paranoid to even drive my car.

I didn't realise how helpful strangers on the internet could be and regardless, I am very grateful to all those who have replied/posted. ;D

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: Incandescent on November 26, 2024, 04:36:43 pm

You could raise a complaint with TfL. They must reply to these. Outline what happened and request to pay just the CC charges with the PCNs cancelled. You are at the very end of the enforcement process, and it's a great pity you didn't post on here months ago.

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: arvin on November 26, 2024, 04:30:56 pm

I intended on paying the congestion in the first place, 2PCN's given when I had the idea that AUTOPAY would work, hell even ULEZ cameras don't work, hilariously my father being fined 9 times in a week despite his car being compliant is a big indicator that something isn't right with TFL.

I've read enough people who's VRM is being mistaken because OCR cant figure out D and an O character, leaving some people with ridiculous tabs.

I was told by TFL on the phone that my autopay account was not active, please provide proof. I did, they send the same again, I provide it again.

I dont hear back, I thought I have cleared the issue with the 7page pdf of me zooming in to the active status, active date and account statements generated by TFL themselves.

I receive a baliff at my door saying I have ignored the letters, they are here to enforce, I tell them to hold up. I am filling SD's , different bailiff different day. Same again.

I wait for the decision. I get the decision. I do some digging and realised I have an 0 instead of an O.

I send them multiple emails, inform ombudsman, ombudsman doesnt want to touch it, due to court ruling for SD. My emails get ignored, I have had 0 contact from TFL even in complaints.

I have one last shot I assume, which is sending a stage 3 letter to the general manager and hoping to god that they can get back to me/ contacting a newspaper.

I have always paid my fines, whether £65 or £130 but £1000 is taking the absolute p*** when was trying to actively avoid getting one in the first place. So i'm relying on reason and compassion, provided they even get my message. Otherwise I can offer CDER group £1 a month
 

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: stamfordman on November 26, 2024, 04:09:50 pm

It's hard to make sense of this but it seems the OP misunderstood the process and still does, and it's compounded by a postal situation that is unexplained.

As far as I can make out:

Two PCNs were received, reps made, and rejections received.
OP thinks NTOs will come and doesn't appeal to the tribunal.
No CCs or OFRs received (for both??)
OOT SDs submitted and rejected after enforcement received.

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: arvin on November 26, 2024, 04:02:36 pm

Apologies,
The court refused*

use closed-loop systems for their registration procedures i.e. they amend/create records and then send those records back to the applicant telling them to check what's in the record and if not correct get back to the registering body. In this way they place liability for errors at the applicant's door, not theirs. You did not act upon your 'odd' feeling either on receipt of TfL's confirmation email or when you received PCN1.

I have read other customers facing a similar issue and it being regarded as a "glitch" something I am aware is possible. I have considered reaching out to a journalist at this point as I have not heard back from further correspondence from the complaints department of enquiries. I offered to pay the £15 charge each and worst case the £65 charge but given my financial situation which without prejudice in a worst case scenario I can offer the bailiff £1 a month.

I submitted my SD's in May 24th after getting it Notarised, I sent all SD's via first class signed for.

07/09/23 & 4/10/2023 Were my other tickets I filled through SD's also which date back further than the TFL tickets otherwise I would agree with the time constraint being why it was rejected, had I appealed the ruling they would ask for £119 or £303 with a judge present. It seemed like a redundant thing to pursue given even if I win all I would receive is an apology(sorry about that).

I do appreciate your help thus far and if by some miracle this is resolved I will certainly buy you a beverage, provided the moderator allows it.

and Enceladus, I did not receive the NTOs

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: Enceladus on November 26, 2024, 03:49:52 pm

"So it lists that but then right after they have then said they rejected it."
No it doesn't say that. The next two entries are.
"05 December 2023Representation Rejected
TfL has rejected a representation received for this PCN.
05 December 2023Representation submitted Under review
N/A"

TFL asked for further evidence on the 30th Oct 2023. There would have been a time limit to respond to the request and this expired on the 20th November 2023. Because you didn't respond the case relentlessly progressed.
"30 October 2023On Hold: SUS29 - Further Evidence Requested N/A
20 November 2023On hold: SUS30 - No Further Evidence Received (31/12/2078) N/A"

What option ground did you select on the Statutory Declarations? Non receipt of

And why didn't you appeal to the Adjudicator when you received the Notices of Rejection? Or did you not receive the NoRs?

You're in a very difficult position. Your Statutory Declarations were refused on the 4th August 2024. The notices would have advised you how to request a review by a district judge of the decision to refuse, but at a significant cost. You didn't take that up and I doubt if you would be now allowed to make a late application. So the procedural route to get the case reverted would seem to be long gone. You've reached the end of the line.

The LG Ombudsman's office would decline to hear a case until you have exhausted all of the procedural remedies already in place. You failed to take up the procedural remedies.

The only thing I can think of is to try to engage once more with TFL explaining how this unfortunate situation came about. See what others have to say.


 

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: H C Andersen on November 26, 2024, 03:42:15 pm

August 4th 2024 Both applications refused

TEC could not, it's not within their power if you submitted SDs in time.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/2313/regulation/19/made

19(1)(c) and 19(5) apply.

When and how did you submit your SDs? (I suspect that some of this would become clearer when you post the details requested by Enceladus).

On a wider point, TfL - and DVLA for that matter- use closed-loop systems for their registration procedures i.e. they amend/create records and then send those records back to the applicant telling them to check what's in the record and if not correct get back to the registering body. In this way they place liability for errors at the applicant's door, not theirs. You did not act upon your 'odd' feeling either on receipt of TfL's confirmation email or when you received PCN1.

I cannot see any way that you could engage with higher level legal processes based upon what we know.

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: arvin on November 26, 2024, 02:39:40 pm

Screen shot is attached, the vehicle and make are not included however were included in my initial setup which I find extremely odd.
And I have tried to add another vehicle that is not registered, it will not let you continue without entering those details.

I had received a penalty charge a day before i registered, paid that off. To ensure it wouldn't occur again, I signed up for autopay and registered my card.
The lady on my TEC phone call had mentioned she had also been victim to TFL saying her account was also not "active" but she registered 3 days before receiving such PCN and was astounded by it being 3months in advance for me. If I registered my VRM with something as blatantly obvious to avoid OCR like T3 Y M O Or TEYMO I would understand I would look like I am trying to cheat the system.


30 October 2023On Hold: SUS29 - Further Evidence Requested N/A
20 November 2023On hold: SUS30 - No Further Evidence Received (31/12/2078) N/A

So it lists that but then right after they have then said they rejected it.

Representation rejected by TfL.
16 January 2024

And what dates are on the notices from the TEC refusing your Statutory Declarations?
August 4th 2024

[attachment deleted by admin]

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: Enceladus on November 26, 2024, 02:15:00 pm

You've posted up a Direct Debit mandate. However what about nominating the actual car to the Autopay account? Do you have an email confirmation of the nomination or can you view the record online and get a screen print?

According to the TFL status history for PCN TZ96679952 TFL requested further evidence for a representation received on the 14th October 2023. Why didn't you respond, or did you? Doesn't tell us but this request might have been an email. What further evidence did they ask for?

30 October 2023On Hold: SUS29 - Further Evidence Requested N/A
20 November 2023On hold: SUS30 - No Further Evidence Received (31/12/2078) N/A


My apologies the £943 demanded by the bailiff is correct.

£270 x 2 = each Charge Cert
£9 = x 2 TEC registration fee each PCN
£75 x 2 = Notices of Enforcement
£235 x 1 = Bailiff visit fee
Total £943

And what dates are on the notices from the TEC refusing your Statutory Declarations?

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: arvin on November 26, 2024, 01:40:36 pm

In response to HC Andersen,
Thank you firstly, and hopefully the moderator does not see your messages as anything other than trying to be helpful.

1: Help, yes. pardon my sarcasm/discontent towards the money making machine that is ULEZ/Congestion.

I am living with my parents, I am not registered to their vehicles in any way, they have listed my vehicle for ANPR cameras to find. Good luck, the thing has been inactive for a while(doesn't move)

I made the Statutory Declaration in time, it was in line with the other PCN's I received for a parking violation in a bay at 10pm(8am-6pm bay hours) to which I appealed multiple times and had the same issue of not receiving an NTO and going through a statutory declaration(Later winning in court and a PCN cancellation), I do not believe in "everyone else's fault", my side, their side and the truth.

You set up a CC Business/Personal AP account on?
7th of June, autopayCCconfirmed.png

You are the Account Holder?
Yes

The A/C Holder's details are the same as those held by DVLA for the registered keeper of your car?
Yes, my vehicle's details came up when entering my VRM
You placed VRM ***** on this account?
Yes T33YM0
TfL confirmed this how e.g. email etc?
Email, pdf

This confirmation to you as Account Holder included a VRM, the problem was(is?) that it wasn't the vehicle that you believed you had supplied;
You did/did not notice this anomaly; and what action did you take to rectify matters?
I did not notice this anomaly

Registration T33YMO(Correct)
Registration on AutoPay system T33YM0(Incorrect)

August 4th 2024 Both applications refused

07 October 2023

PCN issued and batched.
14 October 2023

Representation received and acknowledged via email.
PCN placed on hold (SUS26).
16 October 2023

Representation submitted for review.
30 October 2023

TfL requested further evidence (SUS29).
20 November 2023

On hold due to "No Further Evidence Received" (SUS30).
05 December 2023

Representation rejected by TfL.
16 January 2024

Charge Certificate issued (not received).
26 March 2024

Debt registered; Order for Recovery issued (not received).
17 May 2024

Phone call with TfL customer service (11 minutes).
I was informed that my Auto Pay was not active.
I explained that my account was active and provided screenshots of my statements and Auto Pay status in previous representations.
TfL did not notify me of the VRM issue during this call, despite the error being a critical factor in the PCNs.
17 May 2024

Warrant request accepted by TEC; case sent to enforcement agent (JBW Group).
03 June 2024 – 22 August 2024

Multiple holds applied due to statutory declaration submissions and related reviews.
02 September 2024

Statutory Declaration refused/out of time.


You submitted out of time Stat Decs on ******; why and what prompted you?
I received a 6am wake up call from a bailiff, saying I had not responded to anything.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: arvin on November 26, 2024, 01:14:03 pm

Registration T33YMO(Correct)
Registration on AutoPay system T33YM0(Incorrect)

August 4th 2024 Both applications refused

07 October 2023

PCN issued and batched.
14 October 2023

Representation received and acknowledged via email.
PCN placed on hold (SUS26).
16 October 2023

Representation submitted for review.
30 October 2023

TfL requested further evidence (SUS29).
20 November 2023

On hold due to "No Further Evidence Received" (SUS30).
05 December 2023

Representation rejected by TfL.
16 January 2024

Charge Certificate issued (not received).
26 March 2024

Debt registered; Order for Recovery issued (not received).
17 May 2024

Phone call with TfL customer service (11 minutes).
I was informed that my Auto Pay was not active.
I explained that my account was active and provided screenshots of my statements and Auto Pay status in previous representations.
TfL did not notify me of the VRM issue during this call, despite the error being a critical factor in the PCNs.
17 May 2024

Warrant request accepted by TEC; case sent to enforcement agent (JBW Group).
03 June 2024 – 22 August 2024

Multiple holds applied due to statutory declaration submissions and related reviews.
02 September 2024

Statutory Declaration refused/out of time.


Next you should have received Notices of Enforcement from CDER. £325 on each. (£250 + £75).
Did you receive the Notices of Enforcement?
This is when I understood that they rejected my appeal and decided to enforce, I then filled Statutory Declaration due to not receiving an NTO in the first place, I am aware they automate sending letters and they aren't exactly first class/signed for.They have put £943 request through my letterbox yesterday.

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: H C Andersen on November 26, 2024, 09:38:00 am

OP, I have preliminary general questions(moderators pl forgive me):

1. Do you want help or simply a sounding board for your misguided narratives?
2. If you do, then pl respond to questions and post the documents as requested.

You won't get access to better free advice on the net.

As there are active warrants against your address then your car or any other accessible property could be removed. This is the risk you run on a daily basis. You being on UC is not relevant IMO if you have assets which could be seized to recover the debt authorised by the court.

Time is not on your side.

This is the Congestion Charge enforcement process, NOT the one you say applies:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/ruc/understanding-enforcement-process

(others have already referred to your erroneous references to NTOs and our inability to understand your failure to get IN TIME stat decs submitted).

Please read the process before you reply and then compare to your events.

PCN 2 - If issued in respect of a contravention which occurred after PCN 1 was received then I don't think any of your arguments about mis-registration of AutoPay apply because this put you on notice that your registration was wrong* and you could and should have remedied the matter to prevent further 'misunderstandings'. Why you didn't(a no-cost 5 minute online task), I don't know. 

But you are where you are because you did not submit a Statutory Declaration in time for each PCN. But there's no dispute that they had your name and correct address, so why did you not make the SDs.

Let's be clear, despite your repeated assertions that it's everyone else's fault, it isn't. We need the full(as far as is relevant) factual account pl. Not one nuanced in your favour.

A timeline is essential.
You set up a CC Business/Personal AP account on?
You are the Account Holder?
The A/C Holder's details are the same as those held by DVLA for the registered keeper of your car?
You placed VRM ***** on this account?
TfL confirmed this how e.g. email etc?
This confirmation to you as Account Holder included a VRM, the problem was(is?) that it wasn't the vehicle that you believed you had supplied;
You did/did not notice this anomaly; and what action did you take to rectify matters?
On *** a vehicle with a different VRM to that on the AP a/c incurred a Road User Charge which was not paid;
TfL issued a PCN to you as keeper(NOTHING to do with your account, they wrote to you as keeper) - PCN 1 received;
Reps made/not made on;
Responses received on ***?
Charge Certificates for PCNs ******* received on; you did what?
Orders for Recovery dated ******* received; you did what?
You submitted out of time Stat Decs on ******; why and what prompted you?

The above need dates and yes/no plus other short responses please. Then we might get a handle on this.

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: Enceladus on November 26, 2024, 02:59:25 am

What is the registration number of the car?
What are the dates on the two decision notices from the Traffic Enforcement Centre refusing your Statutory Declarations?

Concerning the TFL PCNs.
On two occasions you received PCNs for non payment of the congestion charge @ £160 each.
You submitted representations on the grounds that you had a valid autopay account with the vehicle concerned nominated.
In both cases you received no response. The responses would have been Notices of Rejection.
Since you did not receive any Notices of Rejection you did not appeal to the Adjudicator.
You didn't receive the subsequent Charge Certificates @ £240 each.
You didn't receive the subsequent Orders for Recovery @ £250 each.
Is the above history accurate?

Next you should have received Notices of Enforcement from CDER. £325 on each. (£250 + £75).
Did you receive the Notices of Enforcement?

Next you would have a bailiff visit which added a further £235. This can be charged once.
So I would expect the bailiff is now looking for £885?
Is that correct?

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: arvin on November 26, 2024, 12:07:06 am

So they rejected my initial appeal, I sent them screenshots of my active status, even an email from them saying it was active, this was 3 months before I even received the ticket. So I was shocked that the auto pay didn't work, I didn't hear back from them so I assumed they dropped it. they sent me the second pcn a month later and same process again of appeal. heard nothing and then months later I had a bailiff at my door.

I filled for statutory declarations, I had received 2 other PCN's from actual parking violations that were so obnoxious from Westminster and Kensington council. Same reason was used for all the declaration forms, I never received a response. The 2 council ones reverted back to appeals stage, sent them the evidence and I got an apology from both for the inconvenience ( I know so generous).

The 2 TFL tickets from congestion charge were rejected, no reason given( which I am sure is not normal)

Bailiffs from CDER group keep turning up to my house at 6am(lovely) adding an addition number they make up on the spot. My vehicle is not here so no joy for them.

Then I contacted the LGSO and they eventually got back to me to say they cant fight for me as the court has sided with them, to which i informed them, that the initial ticket is absurd, let alone the result of the statutory declaration.

I have made complaints, to TFL via email, on numerous occasions and as expected, nothing.

Administrative Failure by TfL Auto Pay
Under Section 3 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, TfL is required to deliver services with reasonable care and skill. Your Auto Pay system allowed me to register an invalid VRM ( without flagging any error or warning. Furthermore, I received an activation letter confirming successful registration, creating a legitimate expectation that my vehicle was correctly registered and compliant.

This administrative failure constitutes a breach of the statutory duty to provide a reliable service and has resulted in unwarranted penalties.
Procedural Impropriety in Notice to Owner (NTO)
Regulation 19(1)(e) of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 requires a Notice to Owner (NTO) to be served as part of the enforcement process. I did not receive the NTO for these PCNs, depriving me of my legal right to respond within the statutory timeframe. This failure undermines the validity of the subsequent enforcement actions.

Key Facts and Timeline
June 2023: Registered for Auto Pay, later discovering the system incorrectly recorded.
Systemic Issue: The Auto Pay system loaded my vehicle’s make and model details despite the VRM mismatch, leading me to reasonably believe my registration was valid.
PCNs Issued: TZ96679952 and LP00274866 were issued, alleging non-payment.
Postal Issues: From November 2023 to January 2024, systemic Royal Mail failures likely caused my non-receipt of the NTOs or other TfL correspondence.
Court Decisions: Similar cases involving Westminster and Kensington Councils were reverted to the appeal stage, where PCNs were ultimately cancelled.
Outstanding Costs: Despite these cancellations, I received no compensation for the £100 statutory declaration expense, time spent, or mental stress endured.

I am losing my mind, I am looking to reach out to newspapers to name and shame this stupidity.
I have also found a ton of articles relating to autopay failures and even someone on this forum experiencing similar issues.
Still unsure what is my best option.

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: Enceladus on November 25, 2024, 11:48:55 pm

There wouldn't be any Notices to Owner. That's only for a PCN served on-site. You would have been served with postal PCNs.

Please post up the notices from the Traffic Enforcement Centre refusing your Statutory Declarations. Just redact your name and address and leave everything else visible inluding the PCN numbers and the vehicle reg.

I believe it's been ruled by the Adjudicator that O is equivalent to 0. But how that might work with a TFL lookup on the payment system is a different issue. So please post up the PCNs. And leave everything visible except your name and address.

Did you submit Representations to TFL against the PCNs?
Did you receive any Notices of Rejection?

Title: Re: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: stamfordman on November 25, 2024, 11:39:14 pm

So you got the PCNs? There is no NTO stage with congestion charge PCNs.

A mistake with 0 and O can usually be won.

Title: 2 TFL Congestion Charge PCN, Autopay - Baliff's making numbers up
Post by: arvin on November 25, 2024, 11:19:10 pm

I’m facing multiple issues with Transport for London’s (TfL) Auto Pay system and their handling of Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs). Here’s the background:

Auto Pay Registration Issues:
In June 2023, I registered my vehicle (VRM  = (redacted) M O ) for TfL’s Auto Pay system to ensure compliance with the Congestion Charge. However, the system erroneously registered my VRM as (redacted) M 0. Despite this, the system still retrieved my vehicle’s make, model, and other details, leading me to believe my vehicle was properly registered.

Failure to Notify Me of the VRM Error:
In May 2024, I contacted TfL’s customer service after receiving a penalty, informing them that my account was active and providing proof. I wasn’t informed about the VRM issue at that time, which was a critical part of the failure. The lack of notification and failure to flag the error contributed to my PCNs being issued.

Notice to Owner (NTO) Issues:
I did not receive the statutory Notice to Owner (NTO), which prevented me from challenging the PCNs within the required timeframe. This failure of communication further worsened the situation.

Court Hearing and TEC’s Ruling:
After TfL issued two PCNs for non-payment, I filed a Statutory Declaration with the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC), explaining the issue. Unfortunately, the TEC court hearing went in TfL’s favour, rejecting my Statutory Declarations. Despite the case being acknowledged as an error, I was still penalised, which I believe was unjust.

I also want to highlight that my father, who recently purchased a ULEZ-compliant vehicle, was issued 9 fines, including 3 back-to-back fines due to a similar administrative error. TfL only resolved the issue after he complained. This shows a pattern of systemic errors in TfL’s system.

The penalties and the cost of notarizing my Statutory Declaration (which I had to pay £100, an amount I couldn’t afford) have caused considerable financial strain, as I am on Universal Credit. The emotional toll and anxiety caused by these errors and the subsequent enforcement actions, including involvement with CDER Group, has been significant.

Ombudsman’s View:
While I’ve consulted the Ombudsman, they stated that TfL won the statutory declaration for the NTO. However, I still feel this matter is unresolved and unfair, and I am considering escalating this issue to the media or even through legal channels like a Judicial Review if it’s not fairly addressed.