Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: IanO on November 25, 2024, 01:12:48 pm
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I was told 3,661 (that’s just over 10 every day!), almost £240k. 8 of these were appealed. Seems a high number to me pointing to inadequate signage, but not sure I want to risk this.
Or that there's a genuine traffic management reason for the prohibition and that there are a lot of chancer drivers still out there.
OP, pl drop the references to 'the driver', this is owner liability.
I had a look at that. Section 4 Paragraph 8a (v) says the PCN must state "that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable". Should this be from the date of notice or date of service? The actual PCN I received states it's from the date of service (how can the council proved when it was served?).
Look at 8(a)(iii).
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All is not lost. You should still make a formal representation. I will draft something later. Each case is different and one never knows what people submit in cases won or lost.
thanks, I also noticed the Representation Grounds they provide are pretty slim, see here: https://ibb.co/1255wt9
they seem to be missing Procedural Impropriety, The Order was Invalid, the PCN was paid, the contravention did not occur etc. am I just clutching at straws here or can they choose which grounds to list?
The grounds for appeals against the PCN are in the Act that the PCN has been served under, (LLA & TfL Act 2003). You are quoting those from the Traffic Management Act 2004, used in London for parking offences.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/contents/enacted
See Schedule 1 in the above
Thanks, I had a look at that. Section 4 Paragraph 8a (v) says the PCN must state "that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable". Should this be from the date of notice or date of service? The actual PCN I received states it's from the date of service (how can the council proved when it was served?).
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All is not lost. You should still make a formal representation. I will draft something later. Each case is different and one never knows what people submit in cases won or lost.
thanks, I also noticed the Representation Grounds they provide are pretty slim, see here: https://ibb.co/1255wt9
they seem to be missing Procedural Impropriety, The Order was Invalid, the PCN was paid, the contravention did not occur etc. am I just clutching at straws here or can they choose which grounds to list?
The grounds for appeals against the PCN are in the Act that the PCN has been served under, (LLA & TfL Act 2003). You are quoting those from the Traffic Management Act 2004, used in London for parking offences.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/contents/enacted
See Schedule 1 in the above
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All is not lost. You should still make a formal representation. I will draft something later. Each case is different and one never knows what people submit in cases won or lost.
thanks, I also noticed the Representation Grounds they provide are pretty slim, see here: https://ibb.co/1255wt9
they seem to be missing Procedural Impropriety, The Order was Invalid, the PCN was paid, the contravention did not occur etc. am I just clutching at straws here or can they choose which grounds to list?
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All is not lost. You should still make a formal representation. I will draft something later. Each case is different and one never knows what people submit in cases won or lost.
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Hi, I submitted a freedom of information request to see how many PCN have been issued in the past year. I was told 3,661 (that’s just over 10 every day!), almost £240k. 8 of these were appealed. Seems a high number to me pointing to inadequate signage, but not sure I want to risk this.
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This is a common location although more so for the banned turn exiting Longfield Avenue I think.
You can look on the tribunal register - this one is from this year. But some adjudicators are more accommodating about signage than others.
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2240055417
Contravention location New Broadway / Longfield Avenue
The appellant attended the telephone hearing of this appeal today.
The council did not attend the hearing.
I reserved my decision.
The contravention alleged in these proceedings is that this vehicle performed a prohibited right turn.
The appellant argued in accordance with his written submission supported by the evidence he provided that signage was inadequate.
There is no requirement for the marking of a solid line or island in the middle of the carriageway.
There is no evidential duty on the council to provide footage showing a vehicle passing signage.
On the evidence before me this prohibition is signed by one regulatory sign posted on the left of the carriageway prior to this junction. That signage is preceded by advance warning signage. I am satified that that signage when taken as a whole, all of which I infer would have been fully visible to the appellant, was sufficient to alert him to this prohibitoin and I find this contravention proved.
The appeal is refused.
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Hello,
received this PCN in the mail for an offense committed on 17th November:
page 1: https://ibb.co/0fBypz5
page 2: https://ibb.co/KWH1wkF
It happened for a no right turn from New Broadway on to Longfield Avenue here: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5127447,-0.3080181,3a,75y,345.68h,94.45t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_oHlxnf2V3HKBEMtHl51lg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-4.446870000000004%26panoid%3D_oHlxnf2V3HKBEMtHl51lg%26yaw%3D345.68423!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTExOS4yIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
The driver doesn't recall seeing the no-right sign at all, which is visible, if subtle, on the left side of New Broadway on Google Street view. Either they were paying too much attention to where they were going (i.e. right) and missed the sign on the left; or it was obscured by a bus perhaps.
The wording on the PCN seems ok, is there any chance to contest that?
I would be curious to see:
- TMO for this no right turn. How can I find it on Ealing's site, I've had no luck so far?
- how many PCNs have been issued by the council in the past year for this specific junction, is this something I could request under an FOI request? I strongly believe the no right turn indication should also be placed at the entrance to Longfield avenue, or even painted on the road!
Many thanks