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Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: ev123 on November 23, 2024, 10:54:06 am

Title: Re: EV charging overstay - private parking change notice (Smart Parking)
Post by: DWMB2 on January 02, 2025, 02:57:27 pm
Excellent - thanks for taking the time to update us. Happy new year.
Title: Re: EV charging overstay - private parking change notice (Smart Parking)
Post by: ev123 on January 02, 2025, 02:46:11 pm
Just a quick update to say thank you all for your assistance.

I didn't receive confirmation email (spam duly checked), but logged on to the appeal site and can see appeal upheld and case closed.
Title: Re: EV charging overstay - private parking change notice (Smart Parking)
Post by: DWMB2 on November 24, 2024, 01:03:58 pm
I'm sure you will now but make sure whenever you're using an EV charger on private land you check any other applicable terms that apply to the car park. We're seeing more and more people coming to the forum having ended up with PCNs in similar circumstances to you.

Obviously there are arguments they shouldn't be issued in the first place, and, as EVs become more commonplace something will need to be done about the issue. But in the meantime, much less hassle to avoid getting a PCN on the first place if possible.
Title: Re: EV charging overstay - private parking change notice (Smart Parking)
Post by: ev123 on November 24, 2024, 11:16:07 am
Many thanks both, appeal submitted.

@b789 I agree re hogging and diminished returns beyond 80% but as I posted there were special circumstances this particular day that required the EV to be fully charged (needed the range for immediate use) and no other local chargers available.

Quote from: b789 on November 23, 2024, 02:07:21 pm
On a separate note, as a long time EV owner, I have to ask why you spent 3 hours occupying a rapid charger? It would be quicker and healthier for your traction battery if you rapid (DC) charged up to around 85% and then simply fast charged the remaining 15% at an AC charge point. It  takes as long to charge the last 10%-15% on a rapid DC charger as it does to charge the first 85%. It is quicker to top up to 85% and then go on your way and make another stop to charge up to 85% again than your wasted time trying to top up the last 15% and receive a PCN in the process.

It is simply not the correct EV etiquette to hog a rapid DC charger for so long.
Title: Re: EV charging overstay - private parking change notice (Smart Parking)
Post by: b789 on November 23, 2024, 02:07:21 pm
As above, easy to beat as long as the Keeper appeals only as the Keeper. (Not so) Smart do not rely on PoFA 2012 to be able to hold the Keeper liable. As Smart have no idea who the driver is, unless you blab it to them, inadvertently or otherwise, and they are not allowed to infer or presume that the Keeper must also be the driver, and you are under no legal obligation to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company, they have nowhere to go with this.

They either cancel it or reject the appeal and issue a POPLA code where a secondary appeal will be upheld. But only if you appeal as the Keeper.

On a separate note, as a long time EV owner, I have to ask why you spent 3 hours occupying a rapid charger? It would be quicker and healthier for your traction battery if you rapid (DC) charged up to around 85% and then simply fast charged the remaining 15% at an AC charge point. It  takes as long to charge the last 10%-15% on a rapid DC charger as it does to charge the first 85%. It is quicker to top up to 85% and then go on your way and make another stop to charge up to 85% again than your wasted time trying to top up the last 15% and receive a PCN in the process.

It is simply not the correct EV etiquette to hog a rapid DC charger for so long.
Title: Re: EV charging overstay - private parking change notice (Smart Parking)
Post by: DWMB2 on November 23, 2024, 11:33:09 am
Before we go any further, it would be useful to clarify who you mean by "we" - the notice will be addressed to the registered keeper, an individual (unless your vehicle is registered to a company?), and it is that individual who must submit any appeals etc.

The good news is that Smart Parking are easy to beat. They make no effort to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act (there's a link in my signature), the only mechanism that would allow them to hold the registered keeper liable. Without complying with that, they can only hold the driver liable, and they don't know who that is.

The registered keeper can appeal as below:

Dear Sirs,

I have received your Parking Charge Notice (Ref: ________) for vehicle registration mark ____ ___, in which you allege that the driver has incurred a parking charge. I note from your correspondence that you are not seeking to hold me liable as the registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("The Act").

There is no obligation to name the driver and I will not be doing so. I am therefore unable to help you further with this matter, and look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you must issue a POPLA code.

Yours,

Appeal online, being careful not to tick any boxes that reveal who was driving, the appeal is being made by the registered keeper.

Keep an eye on your spam emails for the reply.

The above appeal has a 100% success rate with Smart Parking so far.
Title: EV charging overstay - private parking change notice (Smart Parking)
Post by: ev123 on November 23, 2024, 10:54:06 am
Hi

Grateful for your thoughts.

We have received a parking charge notice for "overstaying the free time allowed' in a shopping centre carpark. The car was noted to enter and leave approximately 3 hours later. The carpark general signage says 'Max 2 hours stay'.

The car was charging using an Instavolt charger within the carpark during the entire period. (For the EV owners - there were particular circumstances this particular day that required a charge to full, and no other local chargers were available.)

A sign by the Instavolt chargers says 'Electronic vehicle charging area. Only park within this area when using the electricity point. Failure to comply may result...'.

I have an invoice from Instavolt which shows the vehicle was charging during the entire duration - charging stopped 1 minute before the car was seen to leave the carpark.

My question is: there is no specific signage regarding overstaying when charging and it was charging not just parked - would the hive recommend paying the charge notice or is there a reasonable case to appeal?

https://imgur.com/a/g6jbQ3v