Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: mrpm on November 12, 2024, 10:28:25 pm

Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Hippocrates on February 14, 2025, 12:44:16 pm
We are all human.
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mrpm on February 14, 2025, 12:42:24 pm
Hi

Guess I'll have to cough up on this one but lesson learnt if it happens again.

If there's anyone else having a similar issue, make sure you do the appeal on the form when you receive it - not sure how i missed that bit looking back 😅

When Hippocrates mentioned tribunal I was under the impression I had to wait for court letters similar to private parking PCNs.

I messed up on this one and misunderstood the steps.

Thanks for all your help.
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Hippocrates on February 13, 2025, 10:13:03 pm
If you did not register an appeal, game over I am afraid.
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mrpm on February 13, 2025, 09:48:34 pm
Hi,
<br>
This thread is full of holes.
I've posted everything I've received in entirety. So I don't know what you mean?
<br>
Where is the Charge Certificate? Did you appeal as already asked? You clearly received a NOR
Also sorry I didn't see the reply previously before I posted the last letter from Lewisham.
Nothing had happened in between my last 2 posts. I did post the notice of rejection already further up, I don't know why it's not showing up, I tried to follow the forums new way of posting images using imgbb. I'll do it again here, hopefully this is OK. Sorry for any inconvenience.
<br>

(https://i.ibb.co/6RYyqRMC/2-LQU7p2-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mCJRPCjW)
(https://i.ibb.co/G3VcfqZp/1-wcd-MZsw.jpg) (https://ibb.co/84j6nHys)
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Hippocrates on February 13, 2025, 09:00:52 pm
This thread is full of holes. Where is the Charge Certificate? Did you appeal as already asked? You clearly received a NOR.
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mrpm on February 13, 2025, 04:36:41 pm
Hi,

I received this 2 days ago in the post. What would be the next step? thanks






(https://i.ibb.co/zhWfQzd4/20250212-100710.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HDLgBjZH)
(https://i.ibb.co/qLG2mNR0/20250212-100735.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fkvd85Bs)
(https://i.ibb.co/8DMw0nwj/20250212-100744.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fb61Kk1B)
(https://i.ibb.co/vCV9W4gx/20250212-100754.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j9btYkBv)
(https://i.ibb.co/sdWTq9S6/blanked-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4n1bpRyY)
(https://i.ibb.co/bj1K3vHy/blanked-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XfXC45yd)
(https://i.ibb.co/N2xKWyGg/blanked-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hFsV2mTx)
imagehosting site (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Hippocrates on January 27, 2025, 11:48:26 am
Where are we exactly with this and what has happened - or rather, not happened?
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: stamfordman on January 27, 2025, 11:16:05 am
OP - Did you appeal to the tribunal?
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Incandescent on January 26, 2025, 11:20:58 pm
Hi,

I was away so just going through my letters and saw this one from Lewisham, they have to notify me when they want to take me to court? Not just hit me with a CCJ right?



[img width=640 height=852.9976806640625]https://i.ibb.co/j4FgH7f/20250126-212232.jpg[/img] (https://ibb.co/DKn5L3W)

[img width=640 height=852.9976806640625]https://i.ibb.co/vHZvJ4y/20250126-212238.jpg[/img] (https://ibb.co/g3zFDZq)
There are no images when I look at this post.

Where did you get this CCJ thing from ? There is no prospect of a CCJ under the legislation governing traffic offences. Of course you can end up with bailiffs at your door but no CCJ. If the council are threatening the "county court", they are bluffing their way.  The 'court' is the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, (a special "court", with no courtrooms or judges),  who register the PCN debt, giving the council powers to instruct bailiffs if their Order for Recovery is ignored.
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mickR on January 26, 2025, 10:32:11 pm
@Hippocrates hopefully will be along to advise
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mrpm on January 26, 2025, 10:24:53 pm
Yes, that's right but I had a pcn before and I must have missed the 1 letter out of loads where they actually announced the court then next thing I know I had a ccj but I was in the position which I needed to buy my current car and the finance for it and other things were so time sensitive I couldn't risk the CCJ being there when I got credit checked. So I just had to swallow and cough up the the £260 to clear it straight away.
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mickR on January 26, 2025, 10:14:29 pm
you can't "just be hit with a CCJ"
they would need to tske you to court
and
win
and
you fail to pay
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mrpm on January 26, 2025, 10:01:22 pm
Hi,

I was away so just going through my letters and saw this one from Lewisham, they have to notify me when they want to take me to court? Not just hit me with a CCJ right?



(https://i.ibb.co/j4FgH7f/20250126-212232.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DKn5L3W)

(https://i.ibb.co/vHZvJ4y/20250126-212238.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g3zFDZq)




Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Incandescent on December 09, 2024, 10:22:01 am
We have considered everything! Really? I say Tribunal time.

Hi,

do you think I have a chance of winning this? I'm not sure what to expect if I don't pay the reduced rate.
Maximum liability under the regulations is the PCN penalty; there are no additional costs.
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mrpm on December 09, 2024, 07:56:03 am
We have considered everything! Really? I say Tribunal time.

Hi,

do you think I have a chance of winning this? I'm not sure what to expect if I don't pay the reduced rate.
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Hippocrates on December 02, 2024, 10:51:35 am
We have considered everything! Really? I say Tribunal time.
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Incandescent on December 01, 2024, 10:32:32 pm
Looking at the video, about half the length of your van seems stopped in the box, so not a matter of de minimis, in my opinion.

However, Hippocrates has suggested a "technical" appeal based on Lewisham's management of the PCN enforcement and appeal process. So wait for him to comment further. 
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mrpm on December 01, 2024, 09:14:21 pm
Hi, Unfortunately they rejected my reporesentation.

Is there anything else I can do or should I just pay the reduced amount?

Thanks

(https://i.imgur.com/IlpDiyn.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gHzUMlZ.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/930d4JX.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yv5qhwi.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ro9YjlA.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Uus8K9H.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XMaSFgi.jpeg)
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Hippocrates on November 15, 2024, 08:24:51 pm
Okay.

Thank you for the advice and steps. when they reply I'll post it. Hopefully it works  :'(

So would Bob Hope.  ;D
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mrpm on November 15, 2024, 12:41:49 pm
Okay.

Thank you for the advice and steps. when they reply I'll post it. Hopefully it works  :'(
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Hippocrates on November 15, 2024, 12:33:49 pm
Okay.
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mrpm on November 15, 2024, 11:50:45 am
Yes and add the shot.

https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=NASSTATREG:30::INITIALISE::30::Y&cs=3WtUW3sbIiP3mGIhBTxJNp2IN07PyLB5YKSv9ORuEEqfc78T9QG7iq4HJ07EQxNyhnayNkDZc75-rUCDqyxezog

ETA cases.

Hi so this is what I will send.

"Dear Lewisham,

I make the following representations against the PCN:

1. The alleged contravention is de minimis and I was unable to continue in part due to the actions of a pedestrian and to avoid an accident.

2. I enclose a screenshot of the current status quo concerning payment and refer you to Case no 2240362722 in this regard. The date re increase is clearly wrong and flies in the face of the law.

3. Finally, I make a collateral challenge against the wording of the PCN which "acts as notice to owner" which is a conflation of two legislations and, considering the inclusion of a considerable part re 56 days etc - this belongs to parking legislation - it is perfectly reasonable to expect you to include the grounds of appeal from that legislation in addition.

In light of the above

Please cancel the PCN"


(https://i.imgur.com/a9re1DJ.jpeg)
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Hippocrates on November 15, 2024, 11:19:06 am
Yes and add the shot.

https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=NASSTATREG:30::INITIALISE::30::Y&cs=3WtUW3sbIiP3mGIhBTxJNp2IN07PyLB5YKSv9ORuEEqfc78T9QG7iq4HJ07EQxNyhnayNkDZc75-rUCDqyxezog

ETA cases.
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mrpm on November 15, 2024, 11:00:58 am
Penalty Charge Notice details
Ticket ReferenceZY1146002A
Your PCN is at discount stage. PCN process information
Vehicle Registration NumberYN19XKD
ColourSILVER
MakeMERCEDES-BENZ
Contravention31j - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement)
LocationNorthover - junction with Reigate Road
First seen atTue, 22 Oct 2024 9:08
Issued atTue, 22 Oct 2024 9:08
Served byPost
The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £130.00 on Sun, 24 Nov 2024. Please pay £65.00 now.

**

Wrong!

Try this:

Dear Lewisham

I make the following representations against the PCN:

1. The alleged contravention is de minimis and I was unable to continue in part due to the actions of a pedestrian and to avoid an accident.

2. I enclose a screenshot of the current status quo concerning payment and refer you to Case no 2240362722 in this regard. The date re increase is clearly wrong and flies in the face of the law.

3. Finally, I make a collateral challenge against the wording of the PCN which "acts as notice to owner" which is a conflation of two legislations and, considering the inclusion of a considerable part re 56 days etc - this belongs to parking legislation - it is perfectly reasonable to expect you to include the grounds of appeal from that legislation in addition.

In light of the above

Please cancel the PCN

Hi,

Ok amazing so could I copy and paste the reply. Also sorry when you say you enclose case no 2240362722. How would I look for this is it on the website?
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Hippocrates on November 15, 2024, 09:59:44 am
Penalty Charge Notice details
Ticket ReferenceZY1146002A
Your PCN is at discount stage. PCN process information
Vehicle Registration NumberYN19XKD
ColourSILVER
MakeMERCEDES-BENZ
Contravention31j - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement)
LocationNorthover - junction with Reigate Road
First seen atTue, 22 Oct 2024 9:08
Issued atTue, 22 Oct 2024 9:08
Served byPost
The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £130.00 on Sun, 24 Nov 2024. Please pay £65.00 now.

**

Wrong!

Try this:

Dear Lewisham

I make the following representations against the PCN:

1. The alleged contravention is de minimis and I was unable to continue in part due to the actions of a pedestrian and to avoid an accident.

2. I enclose a screenshot of the current status quo concerning payment and refer you to Case no 2240362722 in this regard. The date re increase is clearly wrong and flies in the face of the law.

3. Finally, I make a collateral challenge against the wording of the PCN which "acts as notice to owner" which is a conflation of two legislations and, considering the inclusion of a considerable part re 56 days etc - this belongs to parking legislation - it is perfectly reasonable to expect you to include the grounds of appeal from that legislation in addition.

In light of the above

Please cancel the PCN
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mrpm on November 15, 2024, 09:15:34 am
Sorry I forgot to leave in the VRM
It is YN19XKD
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Hippocrates on November 13, 2024, 12:57:03 pm
VRM please as advised already. There are technical issues.
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Incandescent on November 12, 2024, 10:58:34 pm
Video shows a contravention - too much in the box for too long. I can't see anything wrong with the PCN but others might.

One thing to do is to screenshot the online representation grounds as there have been issues here.
Sorry, I thought the photo of the box junction was just a photo, not the video. Yes a clear contravention in my view, but there may well be a strong collateral challenge as your suggest, and as seen before on this forum
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: stamfordman on November 12, 2024, 10:48:46 pm
Video shows a contravention - too much in the box for too long. I can't see anything wrong with the PCN but others might.

One thing to do is to screenshot the online representation grounds as there have been issues here.
Title: Re: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: Incandescent on November 12, 2024, 10:43:18 pm
We need to see the video, as that is the sole evidence of the alleged contravention, but you have blanked out PCN Number and car reg, so we can't look at it ourselves on their website.
If you look at the second photo of the PCN, there is a web address for looking at the video. Download and post here, or let us see the missing info so we can look.
Title: 31 J PCN Yellow Box Lewisham
Post by: mrpm on November 12, 2024, 10:28:25 pm
Hi,

I receieved a PCN from NSL who work on behalf of lewisham for partially stopping in a box junction my rear 2 wheels. I just wondered if there was any way to get out of this?

Thanks.

https://imgur.com/ESENcjA

(https://i.imgur.com/ESENcjA.mp4)
(https://i.imgur.com/VR5pgSs.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WLKHe1W.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UbgKyTe.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sidsvDn.jpeg)