Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: CamdenResident on November 09, 2024, 03:23:50 pm
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EDIT:
Have tidied up this thread: moon3hk's thread now at
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/camden-council-contravention-code-21-'parked-wholly-or-partly-in-a-suspended-bay/
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Suspension signs should ONLY be erected in bays affected.
So we can forget about bays not affected e.g. adjoining electric bays which for these purposes have nothing to do with matters.
As for planning etc, this direction is totally immaterial and won't avail the owner* at reps or adjudication stages.
*- every council wears several hats, each with its own procedures. For example:
Local Planning Authority
Traffic Authority
Waste Collection Authority
Waste Disposal Authority
Enforcement Authority
Licensing Authority
etc. etc.
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(parked there late Wednesday PM, after dark - difficult to see signs etc - suspension started 8.30am Thursday)
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Thanks for the clarifying questions, and the suggestion of the email subscription alert off the Council website - i've done that now, so that's something useful learnt too.
I did not see the Suspension signs (and don't know when they went up; and I did not ignore it).
It's a residential street so apart from a couple of EV-bays whcih are marked out to a one-car size it is one long dotted area for Resident Parking (i.e. it's not like there is a series of marked out parking bays).
The nearest Suspended Notice was on a 'Resident Parking Only" council sign which is not in front of our house. The EV bay had no sign on it.
My main question is whether is established precedent around what has historically been deemed 'reasonable' for signage.
I find it a little contradictory that different departments of Camden would choose to put Official Notices (including Planning Permission notices) on the post right in front of our house, and NOT do so for Parking Suspensions for Tree-cutting when the EV-bay in front of our house would also have been suspended presumably. I see afterwards that lamposts in front of other houses pretty much all had Suspended Notices on - but ours didn't.
Thank you all for the responses. The photo below with the gate shows the post right in front of our house which include the E.V. bay as well as non-E.V..
https://we.tl/t-P85xr0NqWk
[attachment deleted by admin]
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+1.
OP, let's cut to the chase. Suspension signs should be placed in the bays to be suspended so that the driver of any car would see these when consulting the nearest traffic sign to them as they're required to do.
Hence why posters want to know whether the clear suspension sign was erected before the driver parked. However, as the driver didn't erect the sign, we've asked the question: did the driver see the sign when they parked?
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You haven't said when you parked there. You either didn't see a suspension sign (it wasn't there/didn't notice) or did see it (ignored it).
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Hi - thank you for the reply.
I was definitely in a suspended bay (I learnt afterwards), however my main question is what the law is regarding signage pertinent to Suspended Bays. i.e. what is the case law / precedent with regards to how clear the Signage from the Council needs to be with regards to Parking Restrictions being introduced? That is the only argument I can see my having.
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OK so you were in the suspended bay but were you in the extent on the sign? If so it's hard to see you have case unless they put the notice up after you parked and the car hadn't moved - which was when. They keep a log of cars in bay you can ask for.
The EV bay seems to be irrelevant.
Camden is one of the few that has detailed info on suspensions including a map of current and upcoming ones:
https://opendata.camden.gov.uk/Transport/Camden-Parking-Suspensions-Map/2syn-p56x
presumably from this dataset:
https://opendata.camden.gov.uk/Transport/Camden-Parking-Suspensions/av3b-8trg/data
and you can also sign up to email alert for a search term (eg your road):
https://accountforms.camden.gov.uk/parking-bay-suspensions-search-and-alerts/
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(also - is there a way of knowing when the signs went up?)
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Thank you for the reply.
Behind my car is the electric charging bay. There was no sign on that lamppost indicating any restriction in front of the building we live in, i.e. no9. I had (when walking to the shops) seen the sign in front of number 10 (the sign is about 25 metres away from our house, eastwards) which showed 'whole bay outside 10 to 11' - I assumed someone was moving house - and as I was parked in front of no9 and there was no sign on the lamppost there which is right in front of no 9 (which is where parking suspensions signs have been previously - including when we moved in) I assumed that there was no problem with where i was parked.
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Are you saying there was the EV bay between you and a suspension sign? Obviously that can't apply to the bay you were in. But there looks to be a suspension sign right ahead of your car? Can't see the EV bay.
If the EV wasn't suspended then it wouldn't have a sign.
There is a bay sign behind where you parked - did that have a suspension?
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5527307,-0.172141,3a,35.9y,353.52h,77.69t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sph-_8K4B6xU4bqMrkknh9Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D12.308303441284068%26panoid%3Dph-_8K4B6xU4bqMrkknh9Q%26yaw%3D353.52225100589635!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTEwNi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
Council pics.
(https://i.ibb.co/nm6bxJz/Screenshot-2024-11-09-at-16-40-55.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/tYCdjhz/Screenshot-2024-11-09-at-16-40-44.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/2j7NCzS/Screenshot-2024-11-09-at-17-04-41.png)
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Hi. First time poster. Very impressed with the forum. My issue:
Camden CC sent me a PCN dated 7th November 2024 for being 'parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay' - it turns out they were doing tree-cutting on the street. Contravention code 21
My dispute is that directly in front of our house there is an electric charging public bay - but there was no parking restriction yellow sign on it. There were notices on other lampposts on the street - but ours was the only one where there was no notice, and so i had paid no attention.
What is more, there is still a Camden Planning Permission notice on the lamppost in front of our house - indicating it is one where official communication should be posted, in my view. So, in essence, i believe the signage was inadequate and so i should not be fined. Here are some photos.
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/20fcd3c2aab2789f0aac0d28eba3d1aa20241109144505/ccdbae?t_exp=1731422705&t_lsid=9d7de891-02bb-442e-84f4-3e55f37eca11&t_network=link&t_s=download_link&t_ts=1731163505
The googlemap location is here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/X7uGZfjTtCxcbpXs8?g_st=ic
We are at 9 Lyndhurst Rd. There was no notice in front of it despite there being an offical public Charging bay there.
Any advice appreciated! Thank you in advance - I am very aware all replies are from volunteers.
Do i have a leg to stand on?
Many thanks