Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: oscar21 on November 05, 2024, 05:17:07 pm
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did this case really need all that CPR stuff at the begining to try and get it thrown out?
The overwhelmingly vast majority of the cases we advise on get discontinued before they reach a hearing (I think yours is perhaps the third case we have seen out of the several hundred over the past couple of years that has actually wound up in the courtroom), which is where the 'CPR stuff' comes from.
Very good to hear that you got a judge that chose to apply some common sense (although he seems to have an issue with 'template defences', but not template particulars of claim that don't adequately meet the relevant civil procedure rules...).
If you had told us from the outset that you were helping a friend, we could have advised you on steps to take to allow you to represent him (or at least sit alongside providing advice as a potential McKenzie Friend).
All in all, it sounds like a very good result for your friend, who it sounds ought to be rather more grateful to you!
I agree with all of that, if it was me I would never fold on stuff like this, I would always take it all the way and every time I have done in the past for stuff like speeding I've always come off winning or not that bad. Years ago I turned a potential 3 points into an absolute discharge by taking it nto court and speaking up.
However my mate is now convinced that you dont need pretend internet Perry Masons quoting stuff that they have no idea what it even means and all you have to do is tell the truth to come out on top.
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Tere has to be. reason the judge dismissed the case and it isn't "just because it was for 2 minutes". It will be because there was no possibility of a contract being formed without a minimum consideration period.
No contract formed, therefore no valid claim. Claim dismissed.
The fact that the defence is a template should not be a factor. The defendant is allowed to use all available resources to submit a defence. That defence was put together by a long serving district judge. It was based on the fact that the claimant failed to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a) (as do all claims submitted by Gladstone's). However, the attached transcripts are only persuasive, not binding.
So, the judge was not obliged to strike out the claim for the CPR 16.4(1)(a) failure, even though it was perfectly suitable to request that it was. What are the point of rules if they are not followed?
When you went to court with your friend, did you ask the usher to tell the judge that you would be their lay representative and show them a copy of the
The Lay Representatives (Rights of Audience) Order 1999 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1225/made)?
Anyway, a win is a win. As stated in so many posts, the odds of it going all the way to an actual hearing a slim and even then, there is a very good chance that it will be successful.
I did, I asked the usher if it was ok if I assisted him and the usher said as its small claims then its no problem, then he wrote my name down in a box under my mates. When we walked in I asked the judge where to sit and if I could assist, calling myself a "lay representative" - he replied "no such thing" and said I had to sit at the back.
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Tere has to be. reason the judge dismissed the case and it isn't "just because it was for 2 minutes". It will be because there was no possibility of a contract being formed without a minimum consideration period.
No contract formed, therefore no valid claim. Claim dismissed.
The fact that the defence is a template should not be a factor. The defendant is allowed to use all available resources to submit a defence. That defence was put together by a long serving district judge. It was based on the fact that the claimant failed to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a) (as do all claims submitted by Gladstone's). However, the attached transcripts are only persuasive, not binding.
So, the judge was not obliged to strike out the claim for the CPR 16.4(1)(a) failure, even though it was perfectly suitable to request that it was. What are the point of rules if they are not followed?
When you went to court with your friend, did you ask the usher to tell the judge that you would be their lay representative and show them a copy of the
The Lay Representatives (Rights of Audience) Order 1999 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1225/made)?
Anyway, a win is a win. As stated in so many posts, the odds of it going all the way to an actual hearing a slim and even then, there is a very good chance that it will be successful.
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did this case really need all that CPR stuff at the begining to try and get it thrown out?
The overwhelmingly vast majority of the cases we advise on get discontinued before they reach a hearing (I think yours is perhaps the third case we have seen out of the several hundred over the past couple of years that has actually wound up in the courtroom), which is where the 'CPR stuff' comes from.
Very good to hear that you got a judge that chose to apply some common sense (although he seems to have an issue with 'template defences', but not template particulars of claim that don't adequately meet the relevant civil procedure rules...).
If you had told us from the outset that you were helping a friend, we could have advised you on steps to take to allow you to represent him (or at least sit alongside providing advice as a potential McKenzie Friend).
All in all, it sounds like a very good result for your friend, who it sounds ought to be rather more grateful to you!
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Case won, I was doing this on behalf of a friend though, the judge made me sit at the back on the naughty step and I couldn't interact with him at all, hovever my mate won it on the time he spent on site, less than a minute. I did mention this in my first or second post but no-one seemed interested.
To me that was the obvious winner, how can less than 60 seconds on site equate to £100 charge, its madness and the judge seemed to agree, did this case really need all that CPR stuff at the begining to try and get it thrown out? the Judge totally dismissed this and said it was just a template internet defence, wasn't interested at all, he obviously knew I was the "internet lawyer" so made me sit at the back.
I wanted to say to my mate go for costs but if I'd have said anything I think I would have gone to the cells. So in the end we just cleared off and were glad to be out of there.
So even though this was a vicotry, it felt like a defeat to me, it was hard work getting my mate to get me all the paperwork, posting it on here, sending stuff off to the courts and solicitors etc etc. Now my mate thinks he won it all by himself as he is the one that spoke up.
What I've learned from this is - never help anyone out -- ever.
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ONLY redact personal info. Leave ALL dates and times visible. Get rid of your tin-foil hat.
If you want full assistance then you need to host the suitably redacted Witness Statement (WS) and all their evidence on either DropBox or Google Drive. You only need to redact your personal info such as your name, address and VRM. Leave EVERYTHING else visible.
Did you send the defence you linked to in your earlier posts back in November? If so, did you include all the documents including the draft order and the copies of the Chan and Akande transcripts?
It is imperative that you follow the advice otherwise you are leaving it all far too late to assist you. You obviously didn't inform us of the allocation to your local county court and the accompanying judges directions. Show us that order, including the name of the judge and the dates of when the hearting is set for, the date the trial fee has to be paid by and the deadline for submitting your WS.
The courts order should have referred to the failure of the claimant to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a) and we have no idea of what was ordered by the allocation judge!!!
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Yes by email sorry, It was acknowledged on MCOL that it had been recieved.
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It would be useful to see that document.
Being vague with the dates makes it harder to offer specific advice, and preventing yourself from being 'singled out' is of very little benefit. EPS and Gladstones already know who you are. These companies issue thousands of claims each year, far too many for them to go to the effort of trawling these forums looking for defendants (and even if they did, they're unlikely to find anything that is advantageous to them).
I already sent a detailed defence via MCOL.
Via MCOL, or by email, as advised in the thread from which you took the defence? MCOL has a size limit, and it is usually not big enough to fit the suggested defence and relevant attachments in it.
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Yes, I have that document from the court, don't want to be too specific on dates as it will single me out, not that thats too important but I need to check in the next day or so whether they have paid or not. The document said that if it wasn't paid by a certain date then it would be struck out. It didn't mention a witness statement was needed. I already sent a detailed defence via MCOL.
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However the court case is due to go ahead about the middle of May providing EPS pay the fee which is due about now, what do I need to do next, do I need to provide a witness statement like the one they sent or is it just a matter of turning up on the day with some sound arguments.
About now? You should have received from the court specific directions as to when EPS must pay the trial fee, and when your witness statement is due. Have you?
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Hi, to continue this, I have now recieved a witness statement from a an employee of EPS although his address given is in Birmingham so its EPS head office. Its a lengthy PDF of 30 pages and details all their arguments and pictures, copies of the original ticket etc. It has the registered keepers name all over it so I cant really redact it and post it on here, I could potentially DM it to a trusted person to have a look at if possible.
However the court case is due to go ahead about the middle of May providing EPS pay the fee which is due about now, what do I need to do next, do I need to provide a witness statement like the one they sent or is it just a matter of turning up on the day with some sound arguments.
I could possibly post parts of the witness statement if soemone wants to look at a specific part of it, I'll start with the original ticket front and back.
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The main factor for me is though, the length of the parking, according to their CCTV the car was parked for 50 seconds, or according to them 1m 4 seconds. Surely this has no merit in a court case, I thought they had as devminimis rule
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You only send copies of documents to Gladstones who are representing EPS.
You only use MCOL to check the status of the claim until it is transferred to your local court. Just check your MCOL history to check that the defence was received. Also check it about once a week to see when it updates to show that your N180 DQ has been sent.
In the meantime, you can download one from the internet and complete it online, ready to send as soon as you MCOL shows it has been sent to you.
It is sent by post but as long as you have the one you downloaded filled out, you can send it as a PDF attachment in an email to dq.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and also address the same email to enquiries@gladstonessolicitors.co.uk and CC in yourself.
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Thanks for the help, I've sent off the documents to that relevant email address and had an auto reply saying thankyou for emailing the claims responses team so they've got the documents.
do I have to do anything with the MCOL bit now, that's where I filed the AOS.
The solicitors are Gladstones BTW.
Also I don't have to send a copy of those documents to EPS as well do I?
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You have longer than you think. With an issue date of 8th October, and having submitted the AoS in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 11th November to submit your defence.
You are correct in that you should use the defence from that thread. Just follow the same advice as given there. You only need edit the defence with your name, the claimant name, claim number and then sign it by typing you full name for the signature and dating it. The draft order needs no editing. Include the two transcripts.
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Hi, thanks for the reply, the court claim issue date was 8/10/2024 and I filled the AOS on 24/10/2024
Is the defence in this thread ok to use?
https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/need-help-creating-defence-for-the-county-court-claim-(if-any)/?PHPSESSID=e6vqamgvpifd3ctvpdbfuspinf
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What is the issue date of the claim? What date did you submit the AoS?
The PoC fail to state any details of the cause of action. Simply stating that some terms were breached is woefully inadequate and in breach of CPR 16.4(1)(a).
The defence will request a strike out and will include reference to persuasive case law.
For now, please confirm the issue date of the claim and who is the solicitor acting for EPS, Gladstones or BW Legal.
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Hi, I got a claim form through a few weeks ago from EPS Ltd for a stay of around 70 seconds by my vehicle. I am the registered keeper.
I did get the various letters at the time but I cant currently locate them, they are about somewhere though. I haven't so far responded to any letters at any time apart from doing the acknowledgment of service with the court, the defence has to be in by the 7th November.
This is the place where the "incident took place", the reviews are just terrible for it. Surely they cant have a valid claim for just 70 seconds or so.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Sandgate+Service+Station/@53.457969,-2.3563189,112m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x487baea8bd0ab6c5:0xe68483bb2b724877!8m2!3d53.4581268!4d-2.3556407!16s%2Fg%2F1hc17lk41!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
If I cant find the original letters is it possible to get a copy of them from the claimant, I take it they will use them as evidence if it gets that far.
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