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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: bigred247 on August 10, 2023, 06:55:23 pm

Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: Hippocrates on December 13, 2023, 11:05:36 am
Typical. Their council Leader was on the tellie last night.  He wants to be an MP!
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: cp8759 on December 13, 2023, 10:12:16 am
To clarify, is the adjudicator saying he never received a copy of the PCN or evidence pack?
The council never sent an evidence pack to the tribunal, so there was no evidence of any contravention.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: Hippocrates on December 12, 2023, 11:18:46 am
The Authority has failed to produce a copy of the Penalty Charge Notice.

Without a copy of the Penalty Charge Notice there is no evidence that a
contravention occurred.


I must therefore allow this appeal without consideration of any of the
issues raised by either party.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: bigred247 on December 12, 2023, 10:14:59 am
Somewhat underwhelming outcome (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1VtM-XVMjsrOna20CAY4zTIG8U3yM0fAO).

@cp8759
I am a little dumbfounded. To clarify, is the adjudicator saying he never received a copy of the PCN or evidence pack? so did a hearing take place? Once again, thank you for your hard work in getting this over the line.... and thank you to everybody else who contributed.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: Incandescent on December 11, 2023, 01:16:53 am
Somewhat underwhelming outcome (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1VtM-XVMjsrOna20CAY4zTIG8U3yM0fAO).
Ok "Number 1": does this barking outfit adduce any  evidence these days?  ::) If at all? All this is happening on Mr Rulewski's watch, of course.  Their barrister.

The signatory of that NOR needs a new stencil.
Presumably they still have to pay the adjudication fee ?

Yes.
Jolly good !  I suppose they are making so much money they can afford a few quid loss.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: Hippocrates on December 10, 2023, 08:45:08 pm
Somewhat underwhelming outcome (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1VtM-XVMjsrOna20CAY4zTIG8U3yM0fAO).
Ok "Number 1": does this barking outfit adduce any  evidence these days?  ::) If at all? All this is happening on Mr Rulewski's watch, of course.  Their barrister.

The signatory of that NOR needs a new stencil.
Presumably they still have to pay the adjudication fee ?

Yes.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: Incandescent on December 10, 2023, 05:11:31 pm
Somewhat underwhelming outcome (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1VtM-XVMjsrOna20CAY4zTIG8U3yM0fAO).
Ok "Number 1": does this barking outfit adduce any  evidence these days?  ::) If at all? All this is happening on Mr Rulewski's watch, of course.  Their barrister.

The signatory of that NOR needs a new stencil.
Presumably they still have to pay the adjudication fee ?
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: Hippocrates on December 10, 2023, 02:58:51 pm
Somewhat underwhelming outcome (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1VtM-XVMjsrOna20CAY4zTIG8U3yM0fAO).
Ok "Number 1": does this barking outfit adduce any  evidence these days?  ::) If at all? All this is happening on Mr Rulewski's watch, of course.  Their barrister.

The signatory of that NOR needs a new stencil.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: cp8759 on December 10, 2023, 01:36:12 pm
Somewhat underwhelming outcome (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1VtM-XVMjsrOna20CAY4zTIG8U3yM0fAO).
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: cp8759 on November 05, 2023, 11:48:17 pm
I've sent you a PM (https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=pm).
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: bigred247 on November 05, 2023, 05:28:30 pm
@bigred247 would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?

That would be great. And yes :)
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: cp8759 on November 04, 2023, 10:45:16 pm
@bigred247 would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: Incandescent on November 04, 2023, 10:37:01 pm
They have not re-offered the discount, so it is now a no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals as the penalty does not increase, and there are no additional costs.
I'm not sure what your reps will be, but no doubt somebody on here will be able to suggest some.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: bigred247 on November 04, 2023, 09:38:54 pm
Hey all,

I received a 'notice of rejection of representation' from Barking & Dagenham. The letter is dated 20.10.2023 but I was away on business from 17.10.2023 to 02.11.2023 so only picked this up earlier this afternoon.

Please see the attached link.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19jLEqDZcfTED0UHhy75kgCMV1_nJA9bM/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: cp8759 on September 14, 2023, 12:53:42 am
No reason to wait, make the representation online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation screen.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: bigred247 on September 12, 2023, 11:57:22 pm
As John says don't lose that email. Draft reps:

Dear London Borough of Barking and Dagenham,

I challenge liability for PCN BZ99465565 because the PCN is out of time. It follows that you must cancel the penalty charge.

Yours faithfully,

Brilliant. Thanks for the guidance around this chaps. Is there any reason to wait or am I good to go with this draft?
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: cp8759 on September 12, 2023, 10:55:24 am
As John says don't lose that email. Draft reps:

Dear London Borough of Barking and Dagenham,

I challenge liability for PCN BZ99465565 because the PCN is out of time. It follows that you must cancel the penalty charge.

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: John U.K. on September 12, 2023, 10:41:00 am
Save that e-mail carefully . . . CP will explain :)

There are now two live PCNs in circulation for the same alleged offence.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: bigred247 on September 12, 2023, 10:25:22 am
@cp8759 @John U.K

I just received the below message from Hyundai. So the council has not cancelled the original PCN or communicated with Hyundai since they issued it.


Quote
Good Morning,

Thank you for your email.

We have not received any further correspondence from the authority.

I have checked the website and this is still showing as £65 outstanding to pay.

Please let us know if we can assist any further.

Kind Regards,
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: bigred247 on September 12, 2023, 12:04:34 am
As John says, the first step is to get confirmation of whether the registered keeper received a response from the council after they requested a transfer of liability. If the council hasn't issued any correspondence to them, then it's open and shut as the PCN served on you is both ultra-vires and out of time.

Thank you both for the advice. I've emailed Hyundai to see if they can confirm whether they received a confirmation of the PCN being cancelled and transferred but will follow up with the phone call in the morning.


Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: bigred247 on September 12, 2023, 12:02:52 am
You might want to redact your name and address from the PCN.
Check with Hyundai that they have received from the Council a cancellation of their PCN. If they have not, ask them to confirm in writing/e-mail.

Thanks for the heads-up
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: cp8759 on September 10, 2023, 11:02:01 pm
As John says, the first step is to get confirmation of whether the registered keeper received a response from the council after they requested a transfer of liability. If the council hasn't issued any correspondence to them, then it's open and shut as the PCN served on you is both ultra-vires and out of time.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: John U.K. on September 10, 2023, 01:10:55 pm
You might want to redact your name and address from the PCN.
Check with Hyundai that they have received from the Council a cancellation of their PCN. If they have not, ask them to confirm in writing/e-mail.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: bigred247 on September 10, 2023, 12:43:12 pm
Hi folks,

I have just received the PCN in the post so Hyundai have transferred over the liability. See PCN below.

https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1DaNbrnrq-h17Z12phNhhMi49C825_Cej

Any advice at this point?

Thanks
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: cp8759 on August 16, 2023, 12:21:28 am
Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mry1HL-B0AU

Best bet here would be the council messing up the transfer of liability.

Let us know when you get your own PCN.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: bigred247 on August 14, 2023, 11:38:12 am
Can somebody assist with getting the video/photos added or ping over some instructions? Thanks.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: Incandescent on August 12, 2023, 11:51:34 am
Who was driving is irrelevant, it is the V5 holder who has responsibility. However, with leased vehicles, the company can normally transfer responsibility to the person leasing the car, (you I assume).

We really do need to see the video, as that is the sole evidence.

You wold seem to have passed a "flying motorbike" sign that is, essentially, a "No Entry" sign for motor vehicles.
Title: Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: bigred247 on August 12, 2023, 11:00:59 am
Any thoughts?
Title: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
Post by: bigred247 on August 10, 2023, 06:55:23 pm
Hi all,

re: 52M failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicle)

I received a notification of PCN from my car leasing company giving me a heads up of a PCN that has been served. They have informed the Barking & Dagenham council of my details, so I expect to receive something in the post very shortly. In the meantime, they forwarded me a copy of the PCN which I have attached below. Not entirely sure who was driving the vehicle at the time. There is video and photo evidence on the Barking & Dagenham website but not sure how to attach these here.

Are there any grounds for challenging this?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JZ926y-iZCzSYabLZJXwls-B5SWk9xNL/view?usp=sharing