Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: John on October 29, 2024, 01:21:03 pm
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The Adjudicator said:
6. The screenshots of the Authority's portal, shows that reasons for challenging the PCN are set out under the headings: "Parking", "Pay and display (P&D) or Cashless", "Emergency/beyond driver's control", “PCN wrongly/unfairly issued”, “Other” and “None of the above”. Whilst I note that the Authority’s portal does not set out the grounds of appeal that are contained in the PCN, Mr Tillbrook’s online submissions neither referred to the grounds in the PCN or any of the reasons for challenging set out on the online portal. As stated above, Mr Tillbrook selected “Any other reason” and wrote out his reasons for challenge. There is no evidence before me that the website created confusion regarding the process for challenging the PCN, or prevented Mr Tillbrook from putting forwards the arguments that he wanted to. The Authority duly considered Mr Tillbrook's submissions and explained its reasons for upholding the PCN in the Notice of Rejection. I do not find that the content of the online portal can constitute a basis for allowing this appeal.
With respect, the Adjudicator has failed to apprehend that, when the statutory grounds were entered, the results showed that none of these was available. Therefore it follows that any reasonable recipient would not only have been confused but also impeded by the said information.
In light of the above, I ask for a personal hearing and/or a panel decision in view of the clear disagreements among senior adjudicators with regard to these website issues.
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Good idea, I'll get on it.
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Hi,
Does anyone think there is anything else that can be done re this? I still can't believe the council can get away with installing something like this and simply continue to issue PCN's rather than make it clearer to the general public that they are not supposed to go through this street.
Thanks.
Get it into the Press.
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Hi,
Does anyone think there is anything else that can be done re this? I still can't believe the council can get away with installing something like this and simply continue to issue PCN's rather than make it clearer to the general public that they are not supposed to go through this street.
Thanks.
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Hello, is there any chance of a class action against the council for not ensuring the 'Bus Gate' is sufficiently marked to avoid PCN's needing to be issued anyway? The average issue I understand is around 170 a day! The signage used is certainly incomplete against the official website at least.
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And so this is a High Court matter.
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Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-drhgNnUBOOCwFGAWVlHooINPgtQRXtF/view).
So it seems the enforcing authority can fail to follow any of the defined legal processes, but provided the contravention is proved, that doesn't matter. Surely this is directly contrary to the High Court judgement that "provided a set of statutory conditions are met, a penalty can be demanded. If some of those statutory conditions are not met, no penalty can be demanded".
So the adjudicator has erred in law.
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Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-drhgNnUBOOCwFGAWVlHooINPgtQRXtF/view).
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Ok. I am working on this case.
This may well be won on their website grounds which are rubbish. I will drop you a PM. I understand you have done your best; but, I am more than happy to represent you at the Tribunal. This below is for the birds:
Parking
33c Using a route restricted to certain vehicles ( Buses & Cycles only)
We will consider your appeal according to our appeals policy. If your reason for appeal is not listed in the policy, we are unlikely to accept it. However we will still consider your case individually.
Pay and display (P&D) or Cashless
The following circumstances are relating to scenarios involving P&D tickets or cashless parking sessions.
Select a reason:
I was in a rush and forgot to pay
I went to get change
My card payment was declined
Emergency / beyond driver's control
Reasons that relate to something unexpected happening to the motorist that must be seen to immediately
Select a reason:
I became unwell while driving
I parked at the location because I needed the toilet
I stopped because of an emergency situation
I was delayed due to a medical or urgent condition
My passenger became unwell while I was driving
My vehicle had broken down
My vehicle was cloned
My vehicle was stolen
PCN wrongly / unfairly issued
Reasons where it may appear that the PCN was issued unfairly or incorrectly.
Select a reason:
I only stopped for a few minutes
I was not at the location on the day
I was not served the PCN
I was not the driver
I was not the owner / keeper of the vehicle
I was only a few minutes late back to my vehicle
I was unaware of the rules
My vehicle was not outside the bay
The vehicle was on hire to someone else
There was nowhere else to park
Other
Other reasons we have received that do not fall into one of the above categories.
Select a reason:
A friend / family member recently passed away
I didn't see any signs or lines
I was picking up / dropping off a passenger
My vehicle is a taxi
The owner of the vehicle has passed away
None of the above
If none of the above reasons apply, and you wish to challenge your PCN, please select below:
Select a reason:
Any other reason
****
When I enter a statutory ground:
Type something in the box below like 'disabled badge' or 'illness' to search for an appeal reason
Search for an appeal reason :
penalty exceeded amount
Suggested reasons for 'penalty exceeded amount'
No reasons have matched your search
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Hello Incandescent, I've attached the PCN to my previous post, as I couldn't seem to embed it. Thanks.
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The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022 only apply to the Traffic Management Act 2004. Your PCN will no doubt be under a London-specific Act. Please therefore post-up the PCN as previously requested.
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Hello,
Thanks for the response. I did read the article in question but went by the note that it's ok to start with just the front page of the PCN, sorry.
I've now attached the complete PCN and rejection. Here is the text of my objection to the PCN:
-Question 1 : 'Please explain in as much detail as possible why you think your PCN should be cancelled'
Answer : 'Dear Enfield Council,
I challenge liability for PCN EF98127539 on the basis of a procedural impropriety. Specifically the statutory grounds of appeal at regulation 5(4)(g) and (f) of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022 are missing from the Enforcement Notice that has been served. That is a procedural impropriety on the basis of which the penalty charge must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,'
-Question 2 : 'Would you like to upload any other documents to support your case?'
Answer : 'No'
With regards to the signage, who ever would look there in the normal course of life? Out of interest, the sign in my case isn't there. There is one similar, but the 'Only' sign is missing in my instance. Anything there that could be used?
Thanks for your help.
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It would help you to get meaningful advice if you could please have a careful read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
and post up here
all sides of the PCN;
all sides of to your response to the Council;
all sides of the rejection from which your extract is taken.
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A blue sigh showing a bike and a bus and you’re supposed to know that this excludes cars somehow.
Re the blue signs, see
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/traffic-signs
and scroll down to 'Signs giving orders'
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Hello,
I got caught by a 'Bus Gate', whatever that is! A blue sigh showing a bike and a bus and you’re supposed to know that this excludes cars somehow. Jus down the road is another restriction with the usual red circle with a car and motorcycle in it, perfectly clear. Why the difference? I looked on here and sent a representation on the basis of their being missing regulations listed in the PCN, which has been rejected. How can a council dream up a totally new way of restricting a section of road and invent signage and nobody know about it. I’ve read recently about a case in Colchester, where it was argued that ‘bus gate’ had no legal definition. Why can’t the council stick with what drivers are used to, red circle signs with the restricted types of vehicles in them? I know I'm not alone, as a FOI showed that there were over 41,000 convictions for this 'bus gate' in the first 6 months of its existence! Can we argue insufficient signage, as I and many others (the FOI was in March 2024) clearly did not understand what it was telling us. There is (after checking) a ‘no through road’ sign at the entrance further back down the road but on the offside of the street on a mini roundabout, but that could be obscured by a vehicle. Nothing on the nearside curb anywhere.
Any help would be appreciated as I really feel this PCN is unjustified.
Location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/PGptWzvhT87yyTsNA
Thanks.
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